Lizzy Savetsky: Becoming a Jewish Influencer and Israel Advocate

Transcripts are lightly edited—please excuse any imperfections.

David Bashevkin: Hi friends and welcome to the 18Forty podcast where each month we explore a different topic balancing modern sensibilities with traditional sensitivities to give you new approaches to timeless Jewish ideas. I’m your host, David Bashevkin, and this month we’re continuing our exploration of outreach. This podcast is part of a larger exploration of those big juicy Jewish ideas, so be sure to check out 18Forty.org. That’s 1-8-F-O-R-T-Y.org where you can also find videos, articles, recommended readings, and weekly emails.

A while back we did a series on the origins of Judaism. It was a little bit controversial, but I was trying to articulate at least how I understand it, how our tradition kind of developed and how did the Judaism that we are familiar with today emerge. And these are very, very heavy questions. These are questions that normally would only be discussed and should only be discussed by, you know, a seasoned rabbi or rosh yeshiva.

And here I was on a podcast listening, probably listening in the car on the way to work or whatever it was, people listening and talking about things that really are foundational to our faith. And I remember I was once driving with somebody in a car and he actually liked a lot of the things that I had shared. He wasn’t coming in like an overly critical way, but asked me very like honestly and sincerely, looking at it like, who gives you the right to share this stuff? Like you may be a rabbi, but like these are really heavy topics that get to the very heart of our faith and our worldview. And you just kind of have a mic and speak into it.

And is anybody officially sanctioning this? Does anybody say this is okay? How do we know what you’re saying is correct? And there were honestly like very good questions, questions that I would expect most of our listeners to ask. And I think in many ways, just the answer to this question is the product of a massive shift in the way that we assimilate and consume information. And that really gets to the heart of today’s episode, namely the advent of social media, kind of the rise of the internet, just the technology that has emerged from modernity and how that has not just shaped our relationship with information, but it has shaped our relationship with who provides that information. I remember growing up the only way to become kind of like well-known in the Jewish world.

I’m trying to think who the, and I’m using air quotes, I assure you, Jewish celebrities were. When I was growing up, it was like Rabbi Frand was for sure, probably like number one. I remember I used to listen to his tapes all the time. I can still repeat literally verbatim a tape that he did on anger and the power of anger.

I’m going to do it in his voice. He tells this amazing story about Rav Moshe Feinstein finally got what was known as the Shulsinger Shas, which was a new printing of the Talmud that was just beautiful paper and beautifully done. And a student came in and accidentally knocked over an inkwell all over the page of the Gemara. And the way Rabbi Frand tells it in his signature voice, and if you’ve never heard of Rabbi Yissocher Frand, who’s also a rosh yeshiva at Ner Israel, I urge you to go out and listen to his, I was going to say tapes, nobody listens to tapes anymore.

He was like the heyday of Jewish tapes. But continuing with the story, after this student knocks over all of this blue ink, Rav Moshe Feinstein looks up and I’m saying it in Rabbi Frand’s characteristic voice, he says, doesn’t the Gemara look good in blue? Doesn’t the Gemara look good in blue? Like he has this very like deep, growly, amazing voice that makes him an incredible storyteller. I think Rabbi Paysach Krohn was quite famous. I probably also knew of Rabbi David Wolpe because of that corner pocket slot he had in the Jewish Week.

And I used to read them, they were very easy to read. But the way that you became kind of like a known person in the Jewish community, there was really only one main way and that was, you know, being featured at some major institutional event. Maybe it was an Agudah convention, Agudath Israel, maybe it was an OU convention, maybe it was, you know, a guest speaker somewhere. And that’s who you knew, that’s who you found out, that’s, you know, and everybody had different reputations.

I remember, you know, hearing Rabbi Dovid Orlofsky was a very popular speaker back then. And then all of a sudden, as the internet popularized and social media popularized, there were some people who adapted to it right away. Most kind of stood off, like many things, and there’s so much narishkite, so much stupidity, so much shallowness, that people of substance generally stayed away. Why should a rabbi have a social media account? Why should an educator? Like, this is where all the problems begin.

And as somebody who spends an inordinate amount of time on social media and online and have, you know, somewhat of a prominent voice, at least on one social media channel on X or what used to be called Twitter, I am acutely aware of this danger. I mean, I have experienced it. I have had times where I’ve had to step back from the world of social media. I’ve had times where you see headlines written about you and it crushes you, it crushes your soul.

The thing that hurts me most about social media is not rabbis used to always be worried about, like, access to heresy. The heresy, you know, heretical, that’s not why people go off on social media. Now rabbis are always worried about pornography. That’s not the issue on social media.

The issue on social media, for me at least, is looking at the way other Jews talk to each other, looking at the way that good, normal, upstanding I don’t know if they’re normal, but upstanding from, you know, from presenting people who are supposedly, should be representing the Jewish faith, and they speak to one another and they speak to the world in the ugliest way. And maybe I see this because I, you know, sometimes generate more controversy, but social media has had an absolutely terrible effect The effect it has on me is it really makes it harder to have positivity, to have faith in the Jewish people. It’s a place where you have Hasidim and Reform rabbis and non-Orthodox Jews and Orthodox Jew s and Zionists and anti-Zionists and everyone’s together in one, you know, town square. I understand the hesitance and why, particularly with young children, I fully get it, I fully understand it.

I think it is one of the real Achilles’ heel in education within the Jewish world that really, aside from the Hasidic and the Yeshivish community, the Modern Orthodox and non-Orthodox community have not adequately responded in just figuring out appropriate phone usage among children. The Tikvah Institute is doing some really admirable work in this area, which hopefully we will feature some of that, but by and large the reason why the work of Tikvah is so urgent, because it’s obviously not targeting the Hasidic or Yeshivish communities, the reason why it’s so urgent is because society has been asleep at the wheel of some of the ills over here. It did not surprise me that a mentor of mine, Rabbi Aryeh Lebowitz, who I know for many years, dedicated his pre-Yom Kippur speech this year about the ills of social media, and specifically he said, I deleted my social media account and I took Twitter and transformed it into Mishna Berura, a reference to a classic contemporary work of halacha written by Rabbi Yisrael Meir Kagan, known as the Chafetz Chaim. He says, I transformed Twitter and turned it into Mishna Berura.

And I remember listening to it, I’ll be honest, I had conflicting feelings about it in this moment because I fully agreed about the danger and the time waste that social media can be. I have experienced it myself, I have felt it myself, and I wouldn’t urge anyone like, you gotta be on social media, that is not at all my position. However, I was also conflicted because there are unique Jewish opportunities that exist on social media. And specifically, when speaking to the best of our community, upcoming rabbis, educators, I actually am somewhat concerned, I’m worried.

Those are the people we need most on social media because they’re the only ones who can take a Mishna Berura, take Torah and transform it into Twitter. I fully get the opportunity and being consistent and focused with your time and being able to take a Twitter and turning it into a Mishna Berura, but I do sometimes wonder whether in this specific moment, we actually need educators, leaders, rabbis, thought leaders who are sharing and really taking the Mishna Berura and transforming it into social media, into Twitter. But that is very much the tension at the heart of social media. In one way, it has democratized information.

In another way, by democratizing information, you are never quite sure of the quality of what you are listening to. But I want to focus on one other thing, and it’s really an introduction to my esteem and almost awe for today’s guest. And that is aside from the way social media has transformed the way that we consume information, it also has changed who we consider thought leaders, who we look towards for direction, for comfort, for guidance, for just understand who has their finger on the pulse. It used to be, and I remember this was in my lifetime, people needed a lot of institutional imprimatures, like an institutional approbation in order to have a voice.

We are a long way since then, and that is why I think today’s guest, Elizabeth Savetsky, known as Lizzy, Lizzy Savetsky, is so remarkable. And it’s really the angle that I was so fascinated by, because I think 20 years ago, someone like a Lizziy Savetsky to be one of the most listened to, widest reaching voices, talking about Jewish pride, talking about Israel, reaching out to Jews that no educator or rabbi I’ve ever met would ever be able to reach. But taking her voice and focusing it to influence, uplift, educate the Jewish people, to me, is a really remarkable manifestation of the era that we live in. I don’t think 20 years ago or 30 years ago, someone like a Lizzy Savetsky would have been able to reach and uplift, and those are voices that are really lost to so much of Jewish history.

And it is really an incredible time in this age of democratized information with all of its difficulties and all of the challenges, the very real challenges that it poses to society, to humanity, to the Jewish people. It’s also worthwhile to take a moment and reflect on people who have used this new era, this new piece of technology to become educators, to become voices for the Jewish people. There’s this term that people use to describe people like Lizzy and maybe sometimes people like myself. I don’t have the social media presence of Lizzy Savetsky.

But the term that is oftentimes used is a social media influencer, an influencer. And that is a very cringy term. I’ve never met anybody who embraces the term influencer. There’s something very manufactured and gross about it that, I don’t know, I certainly find distasteful.

I think Lizzy, I think she said explicitly she finds it distasteful. But after speaking to her and really hearing more about her and her approach, it reminded me of this beautiful quote from Elie Wiesel who said, whoever listens, learns, and whoever speaks, teaches. And that may be a more proper term for people who are using social media to uplift the Jewish people as we are not social media influencers. These are social media educators.

For real, we’re speaking. There’s a teaching opportunity here and being able to reach Jews, different people are able to reach in different ways. This is really an era of incredible educational opportunity, which is why it is my absolute privilege and pleasure to introduce our conversation with Lizzy Savetsky.

Lizzy, I am so excited to be speaking with you today.

You’re somebody who we go a ways back, our connection, because I went to elementary school with your husband Ira, which we could spend the entire podcast talking about, which we won’t.

Lizzy Savetsky: People would like that.

David Bashevkin: People would love it. But I want to begin with you, and I’m really fascinated by your story.

You grew up in Fort Worth, Texas, and this entire series, what we’re really trying to talk about is outreach, people who have moved beyond their community of origin and are articulating a message of Judaism that goes way beyond, which is something that you do every single day. But to understand where you are now I want to really better understand the religious Jewish world you grew up with. What was it like growing up religiously in Fort Worth, Texas?

Lizzy Savetsky: You know, I didn’t realize it until recently, but I think that so much of why I am the way I am and why I’m so passionate about doing this work comes from the fact that I grew up as a Jew in Fort Worth, Texas. I know this sounds very counterintuitive, but because I was one of only two Jews in my class,

David Bashevkin: in the entire class

Lizzy Savetsky: in my entire class in school, and because I had to work extra hard to have that Jewish connection, you know, there were 10 kids in my Bar/Bat Mitzvah Hebrew school class from the entire city of Fort Worth.

And I was able to get involved with BBYO, which was my only time that I was around other Jews until I left Fort Worth and went to college. So I had to really work for it. And my parents, thank God, were very, very committed to Jewish values. We did not have a particularly religious family.

For example, we would light the Shabbat candles on Friday night, and then I would go cheer at the football game.

So we had two Friday nights.

David Bashevkin: That’s a real like football Friday Night Lights.

Lizzy Savetsky: But I thought that was normal. I never felt disconnected from my Jewish identity, because this was all I ever knew.

David Bashevkin: And your parents must have done a superb job that when you were growing up, it was very clear to you that there was something about your identity that was different from the other kids in the class.

Lizzy Savetsky: I really owe such a debt of gratitude to both my parents and all four of my grandparents, really, because I was raised on the stories of my ancestors. And it was so important to them that I knew where I came from. And yeah, I’m from Fort Worth, Texas. But if you go back a couple generations, I’m from the shtetl.

And so I always joke that I have a Yiddishe neshama. And like, I grew up hearing Yiddish spoken with a southern accent. And I thought that was normal, too, because that’s all I ever knew.

David Bashevkin: Your grandparents were American born?

Lizzy Savetsky: All four of my grandparents were born in America, but their parents were born in Europe.

David Bashevkin: I’m the same like that. So you grow up, you’re in Fort Worth, Texas, you start getting into fashion. I remember the first time I met you or heard of you, you were known as the accessories expert. That’s like what you were doing.

At what point do you feel like you took greater control of your Jewish identity?

Lizzy Savetsky: When it came time to choose a college, my mom was adamant that I get out of Texas. She wanted me to kind of spread my wings. I wanted to get out of Texas and just have a different experience.

And it was one of the best gifts that I could have given myself. But one of the most important things was that I choose a college where there was a significant Jewish population. I visited NYU and I just fell in love with New York City. I had always loved New York City.

I grew up coming here with my grandparents, but just the experience of Washington Square Park and downtown Manhattan. And I was really actively pursuing a singing career at the time. I was singing on this country music show every weekend in Fort Worth, Texas. And I was hoping to pursue that in college.

So New York seemed like a very…

David Bashevkin: Like if I would have asked you as a teenager, where do you hope to be in your 20s and 30s, you would have said a singer

Lizzy Savetsky: professional singer

David Bashevkin: Like who I would have heard of on the radio or something?

Lizzy Savetsky: Yes. That was it.

Lizzy Savetsky: Tunnel vision, focus, wanted that. So NYU, I loved because I felt like it allowed me to kind of skip over that traditional college experience of, you know, I come from a world, and I know this is maybe harder for some people who grew up in an Orthodox world to understand, but in the world that I came from, you go to a big campus, you join a sorority. And I just didn’t really want that. I didn’t want…

David Bashevkin: That would have been the normal trajectory for you.

Lizzy Savetsky: Yes. That would have been the traditional path. And I chose to go to NYU because I kind of wanted to skip over that and just full force ahead with the singing career.

And I never thought about marriage or kids or family. That was not in my dreams. I know a lot of girls fantasize about their weddings. That wasn’t me.

David Bashevkin: Not you either. You were laser focused on what it would take to become a world renowned singer, a rock star, proper.

Lizzy Savetsky: Yep. That’s what I wanted.

David Bashevkin: Like what kind of singer, like who was your vision board of singers? I

Lizzy Savetsky: grew up singing traditional country music. I got super into jazz when I was in college, but I also sang with my guitar teacher’s rock band all over downtown Manhattan, different rock clubs.

David Bashevkin: This isn’t like Britney Spears.

Lizzy Savetsky: No, not pop.

David Bashevkin: Like proper singing.

Lizzy Savetsky: Proper singing, but with some grit, real grit. And so what happened was I was having success with my singing. I was performing everywhere.

And I was also living this crazy party girl, New York city lifestyle. I had the coolest friends. I was wearing the coolest clothes.

David Bashevkin: You were in the scene.

Lizzy Savetsky: I was in the scene and I loved it. But there was a huge part of me at a certain point that just started to feel this emptiness. And it was like this void just kept growing and growing.

David Bashevkin: Why? You had everything.

You’re young, you’re talented. How do you even notice a feeling of emptiness?

Lizzy Savetsky: I think if I’m going to be honest, it kind of is something that had always been there. This void that had kept me awake at night as a child, these like deep existential questions of why am I here? What is my purpose?

David Bashevkin: Even as a kid, you remember that?

Lizzy Savetsky: Seeking meaning and always having what I call this dueling duality. Like I wanted to be a rock star.

I wanted this cool life. But on the other hand, I was doing all of this work for intercultural programming and traveling all over the country, speaking about diversity, education, and awareness since I was 15 years old. Like really craving both of these things that didn’t necessarily go together.

David Bashevkin: And you were just delaying having to choose one path.

Lizzy Savetsky: Yeah. Well, I didn’t want to have to choose, but I think what happened was I got so deeply invested in this party girl scene that I woke up one day and I just didn’t even know who I was or where I was going. It was kind of like all of the dreams that I had always had, I felt like weren’t there anymore. And I was just thinking about, well, where are we going out tonight? And what am I going to wear?

David Bashevkin: You were living like a more embodied life, just very basic.

Lizzy Savetsky: Materialistic and like superficial.

David Bashevkin: Gotcha.

Lizzy Savetsky: And I just didn’t like that girl that I had become. And I felt a sadness that wouldn’t go away.

It’s almost like when I was a kid and I would go to summer camp, I used to get incredibly homesick.

David Bashevkin: Me too. I couldn’t go to sleepaway camp.

Lizzy Savetsky: My parents forced me to go and I would cry every day and make all my cabin mates miserable.

David Bashevkin: I have a theory about kids who get easily homesick of having a very intense sense of self.

So you experience loneliness, you experience isolation. It’s so much scarier. And familiarity and the comfort of your own home is providing something much more than just a roof over your head.

It’s where you find yourself. It’s like, now I know where I am. I could not sleep away from home.

Lizzy Savetsky: I never slept out, ever.

David Bashevkin: There’s bar mitzvah season. This is why so much of how I wouldn’t say idolized, but mystified by Ira and his grade, your husband, is they were a grade when they would go to weekend bar mitzvahs, they would come back with stories of like the police were involved.

Lizzy Savetsky: Yes, of course. They were insane.

David Bashevkin: And I was like, I don’t even have the confidence to go to the weekend bar mitzvahs. I went to one, Hillel Novak, my entire time. I was too frightened.

So you were afraid of sleeping over also.

Lizzy Savetsky: Yeah, the point I was getting at was that feeling of loneliness and isolation is something that I started to feel a lot in this particular time. It was like, where am I? It wasn’t I want to go home, but it was like, who am I? Where am I? I’ve lost myself. So I at the time, didn’t really know where to turn to learn more about Judaism.

I felt like it just made sense. I didn’t know that I was missing something spiritually because I’d never had it. But I felt like I was searching for more. And so I got involved with this Jewish outreach organization at NYU called MEOR.

And it was my senior year. So I had gone through my first three years finding my way.

David Bashevkin: Can I just ask bluntly? Yeah. During this period, are you Shabbos observing?

Lizzy Savetsky: No. Zero.

David Bashevkin: Zero. Okay.

Lizzy Savetsky: I have a uncle who’s a rabbi at Ner Israel in Baltimore, and he used to call me

David Bashevkin: Who?

Lizzy Savetsky: Oberstein.

David Bashevkin: Oh, I went to Ner Israel, of course. Oh my goodness. That’s so funny. Okay.

Lizzy Savetsky: So he used to call me every Thursday and he’d be like, Lizzy, this is your family in Baltimore. We’re waiting for you to come for Shabbos. It’s a short train ride away.

And I would just ignore all his calls.

I’m like, you’re insane. I have no interest in coming for spending the weekend in Baltimore. Thank you. So he was the only person that I knew to reach out to.

So I called him. I said, Uncle Leonard, look, I am looking to learn more about my Jewish identity. What do I do? Tell me what to do. And he was shocked.

He said I was the least likely person in our entire family that he ever thought he would get that call from.

David Bashevkin: If you freeze frame and I ask Lizzy at this point, can you read Hebrew?

Lizzy Savetsky: Yeah. I had all the surface level Jewish education that was like, fake it till you make it.

David Bashevkin: Sure.

Lizzy Savetsky: If you had looked at me from the outside, you would have thought Jewish pride, Jewish, whatever. But it was just an empty vessel because I didn’t have the education or the knowledge or the understanding or the feeling really to back it all up.

David Bashevkin: Okay.

So then after calling Uncle Lenny, you went to seminary?

Lizzy Savetsky: No, no, no. I would not have taken that leap. I was in school. I started going to this Tuesday evening fellowship with a bunch of people that I knew peripherally from NYU.

And I got into it. It was kind of everything that I was searching for. It was kind of a refuge from this chaotic world that I was in. Because it’s not like I was like, oh, I’m going to turn off the party girl lifestyle.

It was just that it wasn’t enough for me and I needed something else.

David Bashevkin: Did you have a moment where you began to even speak about yourself in terms of becoming Orthodox? I’m non-Orthodox now? At what point did you enter into the big kiruv world where there’s a destination they want you to reach? Of course. To be a fully integrated-

Lizzy Savetsky: And they’re very clear about the agenda that they have for you.

And it really upset me because I was like, you just think of me as this commodity and you want to-

David Bashevkin: When did you discover that?

Lizzy Savetsky: Pretty early on.

I’m also very perceptive. So I knew that they had an agenda. They weren’t just being nice to me.

They have a clear vision for what they want.

David Bashevkin: And if I would have asked freeze frame Lizzy at that point, do you want to become Orthodox? Would you have said, I already am Orthodox?

Lizzy Savetsky: No, no. I would have said, I don’t know.

Because that was the truth.

David Bashevkin: Gotcha.

Lizzy Savetsky: I didn’t know. And there was a lot that scared me about it. And I am a very extreme person.

So when I’m in, I’m all in. When I’m out, I’m all out. And so to take that leap for me, I knew it would change my whole life and everything about it. And it did.

Even though I maybe didn’t fit the profile of what the kiruv rabbis were trying to achieve with me, I still transformed my entire life through that experience.

David Bashevkin: In what way do you feel that you, even at the time, were not the product that your mentors, who were good people you like, but that you had, I’m not the product. I haven’t achieved, I haven’t done the thing that they would have wanted me to do.

Lizzy Savetsky: I guess in my head, the Orthodox world was something where women have a role where they’re in control of the home and setting the tone of the home.

And I never ever, and I still cringe at the idea that I would ever be a homemaker.

David Bashevkin: Homemaker. Yes.

Lizzy Savetsky: Like that to me is everything that I grew up with, that I rejected and wanted to run away from.

And so I could not get behind that concept.

David Bashevkin: I have a vivid memory of, it was like a school form where you have to write your parents’ profession.

And I wrote down homemaker for my mother. And I remember her, aside from telling me she was crushed. It hurt her to see that. Some people love it.

Lizzy Savetsky: Yeah. My mom, she’s the ultimate nurturer.

She lives to take care of all of us, but that was just never me.

David Bashevkin: It’s not what you wanted.

Lizzy Savetsky: I don’t cook. I don’t clean.

I mean, I can cook and clean. It doesn’t fulfill me. And there’s no shame at all. And my mom is my hero.

I wish that that would be enough for me, because she has given us all the wings to fly. And without her, I don’t know where I would be. But I just knew that I couldn’t take on that role.

David Bashevkin: Gotcha.

Lizzy Savetsky: And so I think that’s sort of how I perceived becoming Orthodox. And when I found out about Kol Isha, which is this law that Jewish Orthodox men are not supposed to hear a woman sing. I was like, well, that’s it. I’m out.

They were like, but there are these beautiful women’s concerts. I’m like, no, you really don’t get it.

And by the way, these girls have become complete rock stars. They’re like the Taylor Swifts.

David Bashevkin: Well, now that social media exists, they have like a real audience.

Lizzy Savetsky: They’re like Bracha Jaffe, I mean, there are so many, and they’re amazing. But that’s just not…

David Bashevkin: When you have your aspirations and playing in Carnegie…

Lizzy Savetsky: This was not how I saw myself at all.

And I was having a bit of an identity crisis, which is normal when one is going through this spiritual brainwashing, which I don’t think is a bad thing.

So yeah, I didn’t know. I was very slow to make any sort of commitment. I remember the first Shabbos I kept, I went to a Shabbaton in Passaic with MEOR.

David Bashevkin: They threw you into the deep end of the pool.

Lizzy Savetsky: Yeah, they did. And I was like…

David Bashevkin: Passaic Shabbos. I would have started with Englewood.

Lizzy Savetsky: Literally. I was like, I didn’t know Modern Orthodox.

David Bashevkin: Gotcha.

Because MEOR has a little bit more of a yeshiva feel.

Lizzy Savetsky: It is totally black hat. Yeah.

David Bashevkin: Yeah.

Lizzy Savetsky: Which I also didn’t know what that meant, but yeah. And by the way, I’m still extremely close with my rabbis from MEOR, Rabbi E. Aaron Eisman. He’s from Baltimore also.

He and I speak every week. We’re super connected. Rabbi Shmuel. I mean, these people are in my life still today.

David Bashevkin: Wow. But that first Shabbos in Passaic, thumbs up? Did it go well?

Lizzy Savetsky: I felt like it was an anthropological experiment.

David Bashevkin: Like, throw me into this world and see how I do. You were on a safari in Passaic.

Lizzy Savetsky: Yeah. I was like, okay.

I mean, I knew I wasn’t going to live in Passaic. There was no world where that would ever happen. And there was an intensity that I saw that I felt a bit uncomfortable by. I felt like, okay, this is cool, but I’m not sure this is for me.

David Bashevkin: At what point, was it an epiphany or slowly easing in? Did you look at yourself and say, my religious identity is I’m Orthodox, I’m Shabbos observant. When did you get comfortable with a real change in the title? You know, everybody like labels don’t matter, but at some point when you’re living it long enough-

Lizzy Savetsky: I remember one particular moment. I was at my graduation from NYU lunch with my brother and my parents and some friends. And we went to this nice restaurant in Union Square, and I ordered a burger.

And then I said, no, no, no, no, I’m going to have sushi. And that was the first time that I said-

David Bashevkin: You make a real choice.

Lizzy Savetsky: And I hate sushi. I still don’t eat sushi.

But I was like, that’s kosher. Gotcha. And at that point I was like, okay, this is it. I’m graduating from college.

I’m making this commitment to myself. I’m now going to keep kosher. And I really wanted the burger.

David Bashevkin: And you knew what that was.

You didn’t grow up.

Lizzy Savetsky: I didn’t grow up keeping kosher. Yeah, I knew what that was. I was scared to even make that decision because I felt like I was making this commitment to myself.

Because look, like I learned very early on when it comes to keeping mitzvot, I’m not doing it for God. God doesn’t need anything. I’m doing it for myself. So do I want to give myself this gift of a connection to my Jewish identity, a deeper connection, and in turn, a deeper connection to God? Because every single time that I make the decision to eat kosher or make a bracha on food, which my kids think it’s so funny.

They’re like, Mommy, you made a bracha on your, you make bracha? Because they do the bracha in school and they think it’s funny that I do it. But that’s for me to feel this connection. And it’s a reminder that I am different. I’m Jewish.

And that I have God above me. It’s a humble act. And it’s also a reminder that I’m not in control of the world. And so it was one particular day and I was like, that’s it.

David Bashevkin: I want to fast forward because the contrast to me and to differing, very differing degrees with very different populations. Both of us have a public persona and a home and a family, a family persona. We’re fast forwarding to where you are now. You got started in a Jewish world in Fort Worth.

You originally are going to be a singer. You pivoted to fashion. Then at some point you started posting more and more about Israel and Jewish identity to the point where like, that’s almost the core.

Lizzy Savetsky: That’s it.

David Bashevkin: It’s like at the core of it. Was that transformation solely a awakening post October 7th or were you already headed in that direction pre-October 7th?

Lizzy Savetsky: You know, it’s funny because almost every speech I’ve given or any opportunity that’s kind of happens it’s October 7th, people will say that to me, Oh, since October 7th, Lizzy Savetsky has taken this on. And I’m not resentful about that. But the fact is that I had made the full pivot and the full commitment to devote my entire platform to fighting for the Jewish people, Jewish education and defending the truth for Israel back in 2021.

But really I had started that shift as early as 2017. I put Zionist with an Israel flag in my Instagram bio and was always extremely outspoken, even if it wasn’t the core of my content. But yeah, there was a particular moment in 2021 when Israel had been attacked from a barrage of rockets from Hamas and it killed a bunch of civilians. And I saw how social media was being used as a propaganda machine to demonize Israel.

David Bashevkin: And this is pre-October 7th.

Lizzy Savetsky: This is 2021.

David Bashevkin: I wasn’t paying that much attention then.

Lizzy Savetsky: This is the spring of 2021.

David Bashevkin: And I remember when I would hear people who were like, you know, we have to fight antisemitism. It almost sounded in 2021 to my ears like antiquated.

Lizzy Savetsky: You know, I was thinking about this this m orning actually. And I had always told myself this story that it was the spring of 2021 when this attack happened or whatever.

But actually in January of 2021, we had the march across the Brooklyn Bridge against antisemitism after the rabbi, I believe it was in New Jersey, got stabbed.

David Bashevkin: Yes. It was Hanukkah time.

Lizzy Savetsky: So we had that march across the Brooklyn Bridge.

David Bashevkin: And you participated.

Lizzy Savetsky: I flew in from Dallas. We were living in Dallas at the time.

And I said to Ira, we have to be there. We have to go. This is such a critical moment. Even at that point, I was already seeing that the thing that I cared more about than anything else was standing up for the Jewish People.

And I didn’t even know what to do with that because I had never seen anyone transform their platform from fashion and accessories to…

David Bashevkin: It’s a hard pivot.

Lizzy Savetsky: It’s a sharp pivot. Yeah.

David Bashevkin: It’s not like you were doing earlier stuff on just like world politics and zooming on Israel. That’s like a Ben Shapiro pivot. He could, you know, you could, you could manage it.

This was from like handbags straight to the Middle Eastern politics.

Lizzy Savetsky: Literally. I remember having like this feeling inside of my body at that march.

Like I have to change some things. I remember feeling like, I think I have a big job to do, but I don’t know how to do it.

David Bashevkin: What I find so remarkable is, A, before I know you, because that’s fairly recent, I know Ira. It’s in second grade.

And you know, I’m not making sense. We were best friends, but like we literally grew up together. We were on the same bus. I knew him.

And this role, this type of role that you play, which is a very public, very Jewish, very deeply Zionistic, but it’s more than just, it’s deeply Jewish. And you project that outwards. Were you and Ira on the same page early in the man? Like, didn’t you want, or wasn’t the vision like you’re married to a plastic surgeon, you’re this fashion icon.

Like, wasn’t there a part of you, or wasn’t there at least a part of him, which is like, can’t we be just like the regular plastics and enjoy our lives? Why add this dimension? Is that post October 7th that like, we’re going all in on this and it’s going to affect our professional lives? When did that start where you and Ira, because it’s more than just changing content. It’s changing your very identity. How people see you, what people associate you with.

Did you need to have a private conversation? Like the Ira I know is not the Ira who’s like, I want to dedicate the rest of my life in sharing Jewish content and Jewish identity.

From a surface level, if he would have met you and he married a person in fashion, I would have said, have a good life. Go to shul on Shabbos and the High Holidays. Enjoy yourselves.

Did you have to have like a private conversation about this?

Lizzy Savetsky: Ira is my silent partner for the most part in all the work that I do. And I think it surprises a lot of people, especially people that know him from growing up because he does have a more private type of personality.

David Bashevkin: Yeah.

Lizzy Savetsky: Like I remember when I went on Instagram impulsively and started talking about my pregnancy losses and he was in the OR and he came out and he’s like, Lizzy, like, what did you do? Like, I haven’t even told my parents.

Like, why do you have to talk about this to the world? Whatever. But when it came to the Jewish people and standing up for Israel, Ira would be the one driving the ship. And this is what people are surprised about and also don’t really know is that he came to me and was like, you have an obligation. God gave you a platform and there aren’t people stepping up.

You have to do this. And he even said to me, my grandma came out of Auschwitz, 78 pounds, and we are here because of her miraculous survival. And when we’re seeing the tide shift and the world turn against us, we have a big job to do not only for ourselves, but for our ancestors, because they were somehow miraculously able to hang on to their Jewish identity despite all of the persecution that they had to endure and also for our children. So how can I not do everything that I possibly can for the Jewish people?

David Bashevkin: Did that surprise you? You signed up, you meet a guy.

Ira’s always a good looking guy from back in the day. Like I remember I was trying to explain.

Lizzy Savetsky: He used to have long hair.

David Bashevkin: He had like the perfect Jonathan Taylor Thomas haircut.

Do you remember like perfect part of the middle, like the step? It was like impeccable.

Lizzy Savetsky: Oh my God, I love JTT.

David Bashevkin: JTT. He was the coolest.

And he goes through a really bumpy high school experience. Really bumpy.

Lizzy Savetsky: For our viewers out there, my husband went to three high schools.

And not because he chose to.

David Bashevkin: Yeah, exactly. We start off in the same. He didn’t make it. Went to two others.

We knew a lot of the same crowd. And like finally gets into the medical class. Like what’s driving you to that he’s encouraging you to get more involved? Like why not enjoy the fruits of your professional labor and have just like a good chilled fun life?

Lizzy Savetsky: Right. How can we do that? Literally our people are suffering right now and we are fighting for our survival.

And I know that I can’t go and fight in the war. I’m not a soldier, but how can I not step up and do my part and do everything that I can? And I think Ira very much had his head on straight with that from the very, very beginning. He was the one actually who encouraged me to quit my job in fashion and take my Instagram full time. I didn’t know when I opened up my Instagram account back in 2011 that I would be able to have a career from social media.

I mean, that would have sounded preposterous to me at the time. But Ira had the foresight to know that this could really be something. And he wanted me to take that leap and take that risk.

David Bashevkin: And he’s encouraging you.

Lizzy Savetsky: Yeah. He’s like, if you don’t dive in head first, you’re never going to know. Just do it. And I remember having that call with my parents, like, I’m going to quit my job.

And they were like, why would you do that? Like you have a stable income. Ira’s in residency. This is crazy. And I said, because if I don’t do it now, I’ll never know.

And the moment could pass. And Ira always had, I’m telling you, it’s this kind of optimism that borders on delusion that Ira has. That is a gift to somebody like me. Because my first answer is always no.

David Bashevkin: Yeah.

Lizzy Savetsky: Like, I’m like, I can’t do that. Are you insane? Me? No, I can’t. And he’s always like, Lizzy, yes, you can and you will.

And he’s the one that really pushes me.

David Bashevkin: You see it with his life. I mean, thinking back and that, you know, I can picture his eighth grade class picture and say, identify the person who’s going to get through a surgical residency. I mean, I don’t know if he’d be the first face I would cross out, but he’d be the first five or 10.

It’s not going to be like a few others.

Lizzy Savetsky: Yeah, but he’s extremely driven. You know, there was never a moment where we were like, we need to have a conversation about this. Which direction is my, I remember actually in 2021, when I got dropped by my management company, after I started going full force for Israel.

David Bashevkin: Sure.

Lizzy Savetsky: And they said, look, Lizzy, it wasn’t even an antisemitic conversation at all. It was like, look, Lizzy, you’re on an amazing path, but we can’t help you. You are no longer marketable to our clients.

David Bashevkin: You’re doing something else. Yeah.

Lizzy Savetsky: They’re like, we support you and we’re cheering you on, but it’s time for us to like cut you loose. And I was like, thank you.

And Ira, I had to go to him and be like, look, like I know we’re dependent on my income. I’m going to have to figure out what to do from here. And he very much had my back. He was like, this is from Hashem.

You’re meant to be taking this turn, completely unexpected turn, you know, we’ll figure it out. And it took time, but ultimately I was able to parlay it into a full-blown international speaking career.

David Bashevkin: And here’s my question with that. And this is almost, I’m seeking because you and I, who again, do very different things on very different scales to very different audiences, but both of us in very different ways really found a place or a voice that this chair that we are sitting in each respectively did not exist.

It did not exist when we exited high school. It didn’t really exist college. But here’s my question to you, especially given an upbringing in Fort Worth and a pivot from fashion into not just Israel, but Yiddishkeit and Judaism, how do you deal with, and how do you not have crippling imposter syndrome? I want to share with you a real conversation. I remember, I remember I had, there was one of these like social media controversies, you know, they come up like every six months, you have like a hard time remembering what they were about.

And somebody was upset at the amount of attention I get or something on Twitter, whatever, and said, and I remember they said, it’s not right. People, Lizzy Savetsky, they invoked your name, should be getting just as much sway or attention or influence as you. I don’t even remember what the context was, but I remember what somebody else came in and said, I was hurt on your behalf. Somebody said, well, Lizzy is hard to take seriously because five minutes ago she was posting a picture of fashion pictures and running a fashion show.

And when I heard that, I’m like, A, right away, I’m thinking of all the people who are saying that about me. I’m not posting fashion pictures. But anybody who’s in this spot knows all the reasons why people should not take you seriously.

And like it can chirp in your brain. On different sides. So my first question is when you pivot from fashion to Israel, why aren’t you like, who’s this person? Like, aren’t you supposed to be modeling handbags and outfits? Now we’re supposed to take you seriously about the war in the Middle East.

How did you overcome and say, you know what? I do have a voice here.

Lizzy Savetsky: You know, first of all, I do suffer from imposter syndrome. I think anyone in a public facing position that is a self-proclaimed expert suffers with it. I think actually, any successful person that I know suffers from imposter syndrome.

It’s just about faking it. And I would say that three days of the week, I wake up feeling amazing about myself and, you know, feeling super confident. And the other four, I’m questioning and filled with self-doubt.

David Bashevkin: My trigger for when I get doubt is when I post something that I didn’t, it’s like a chess game.

You have to figure out how it’s going to be received. And it gets received. I didn’t anticipate that someone was going to get offended in this way. I’ve disappointed somebody.

Do you remember the first time that you like publicly disappointed somebody on social media?

Lizzy Savetsky: Actually, yeah. I remember vividly. I had posted a family picture of us in these matching pajamas that were just whatever. And it was on Christmas day.

They weren’t Christmas pajamas, but it was like, everyone had the day off school or whatever. Like we’re just at my parents’ house and I posted this picture. And I started getting attacked by people saying, what are you doing? It’s Christmas. And like, there are wolves on the pajamas.

They were like, Roberta Roller Rabbit, wolf pajamas. And I was so hurt that people would make these accusations. Now I would literally laugh and not even give these kinds of comments.

You’re just like, wait, you totally misinterpreted my message. I was just posting a cute family photo of us in matching pajamas on, we all happen to be home from work and school. What’s the big deal? They took that as like, Oh, you know, you’re celebrating Christmas or whatever their interpretation was. But I did want to get back to your initial question about the pivot and wondering if I will be taken seriously.

And I think I am a very multifaceted person. I have always been, and I continue to be. I am a very deep thinker. I am an intellectual and an academic, even though I may not look like one.

And even though I may not always present as one and I had the confidence, there was never a moment where I doubted my intelligence or my communication skills. I always knew that those were in good shape. If anything, I felt like an imposter in the fashion world because I’m—

David Bashevkin: Oh, that’s so interesting.

Lizzy Savetsky: Yeah, I actually felt very much at home when I started advocating full time, that felt completely natural to me.

There was never a moment where I felt like should I be doing this? Who am I to do this? I felt that way. Actually, when I was doing fashion, I had much more imposter syndrome. I felt like I’m doing exactly what God put me here to do when I started doing this work. And I think that that’s why when people make those comments like they did to you, or to me, which I get every day.

I don’t care because I know I’m doing what I’m supposed to be doing. And it doesn’t matter to me what anyone thinks because I know when I put my head on the pillow at night that I spent my day doing everything that I could for the Jewish people and for the State of Israel. And has it always been like that since I started this work?

David Bashevkin: That you feel aligned.

Lizzy Savetsky: I am on a mission with tunnel vision, completely focused.

And I don’t care what anyone else thinks.

David Bashevkin: The part that I find the hardest is specifically in the Jewish world, not just the imposter syndrome vis-a-vis who am I to articulate support for Israel, anti-Semitism to the half a million followers, 400,000 followers that you have right now. What to me, the hardest part is actually playing a role within the Jewish community because of the expectations of what, you know, everybody has a model of what a Jewish influencer should look like. And Jewish influencers, even the term influencer is said with like a muted eye roll.

Nobody likes that word. And it’s hard to take the work that you’re not allowed to take yourself seriously as an influencer. The moment you start like, and people are like, oh, she takes herself too seriously.

David Bashevkin: My question is the imposter syndrome vis-a-vis other Jews.

And particularly, I’m so curious about this within the Orthodox community. This is not your community of origin. You began in Fort Worth. You married somebody who made the rounds in the frum world.

I thought he was going to find an exit. He’s still here, Ira, which is unbelievable. So amazing. But now you’re here and you’re a real name.

I just had a conversation with Shulem Deen. He’s a former Satmar Hasid. He wrote a beautiful memoir called All Who Go Do Not Return. We were just on the phone talking about something totally separate.

And he mentioned in passing, I didn’t mention that we were talking. He’s like, so funny. He’s talking about, you know, his Satmar relatives. And he said, yeah, he says they also watch Lizzy Savetsky.

They’re also seeing this.

Lizzy Savetsky: I have a lot of Satmar followers.

David Bashevkin: Because there’s this upswelling of interest in Israel. But to me, the moment I heard that, I was like putting myself in your shoes of like the judgment that you could sometimes feel.

You get invited by the most important Orthodox institutions, Yeshiva University, the Orthodox Union. How do you contend with feelings of like, now I’m not just a part of the community. I’m one of the spokespeople for the community. And you know that you’re not the classical mold.

How do you contend with those feelings of like, I can speak on behalf of Orthodoxy, but still inside, like every Jew, like, I’m not the perfect role model. I’m not the best. I’m not like an A plus across the board. So how do you deal with that? Like, you must get judgment from other Jews.

Lizzy Savetsky: I’m not a rabbi, right? And I will always say that, like, if I’m speaking on something or my opinion about something religiously, you know, I’m not here to posken.

David Bashevkin: Yeah. Who would have thought that later in life, you would have to have disclaimers that I am not poskening.

Lizzy from Fort Worth.

Lizzy Savetsky: I’m not poskening. I’m not here to posken. Just here to share my experience. You know, I think it’s a maturity thing for me.

I spent so much of my life trying to fit in. I was so good at it. I was so good at it. I could fit in at my country music show in Fort Worth, Texas.

I could fit in with the downtown cool kids at NYU. I could fit in, in Har Nof.

David Bashevkin: Because you learned in Neve. We were just talking about that.

Rechov HaKablan. In Neve, yeah.

Lizzy Savetsky: I was very malleable and able to adapt. And I think with some life challenges that I had, and I would say victories that I had, the biggest success of my life is that I got sober. And I think when I started working a 12 step program and really doing this inventory of myself, I stopped that game that I would play where I would just change whoever I was to fit in with whoever I was with. And now I don’t want to say I’m cured of any of those things that used to plague me with trying to-

David Bashevkin: People pleasing. Yeah. There’s a book that had a huge influence on me because it’s basically weaponizing your empathy because you’re able to read other people. You can go into any room and there’s this book called The Drama of the Gifted Child by Alice Miller.

And she talks about children who at a young age, and I would consider myself in this category, you undoubtedly were in this category, who learn how to read the room can end up- It’s a blasphemy curse. Yes. Because then they walk into every room and they’re gauging-

Lizzy Savetsky: They know how to be.

David Bashevkin: Exactly.

Lizzy Savetsky: I know which Lizzy you need me to be.

David Bashevkin: Exactly.

Lizzy Savetsky: Yes. So I struggled with that my entire life in every chapter.

And it wasn’t until I got sober that I really started to understand that about myself. I didn’t know that that’s who I was.

David Bashevkin: What was it about the 12 step program that helped you get rid of that demon?

Lizzy Savetsky: I started to unpack my patterns and see what was driving this self-destructive nature that I had. And I realized that I had spent my entire life seeking external validation, living to please others and trying to be the best.

And I didn’t really understand all the negative things that came with that, meaning I couldn’t just be comfortable being me. And so I would say in the past three years, I’ve really experienced a shift when I walk into a situation like walking into the OU. I’m just Lizzy. I’m unapologetically myself.

You invited me here. You know who I am. And I don’t have to pretend to be something else.

David Bashevkin: Was there a time pre three years ago, if you get invited to the OU or one of these-

You start to have those feelings again? Am I going to fit in? Am I going to be judged?

Lizzy Savetsky: Or what? Yeah. How am I going to present myself? What do I need to wear?

David Bashevkin: Are they going to-

Lizzy Savetsky: And I had experienced, and I continue to experience from community, a lot of judgment about the way that I dress. And I remember vividly at Neve being in Ramat Beit Shemesh for Sukkot at a rabbi’s house. I was just freshly in seminary, okay? Not religious, barely Shabbos observant.

And I had on a blouse that had sheer sleeves.

David Bashevkin: Sure.

Lizzy Savetsky: Okay? I didn’t know. I thought I’m modest. I thought I’m-

David Bashevkin: You thought you were a gold medal winner right now.

Lizzy Savetsky: No, I just thought I was respectful. And the rabbi said something to me.

He was like, it’s a chutzpah. And I was so embarrassed. Crushed. I wanted to leave.

I was like, I don’t care if I have to break Chag, I want to leave. I didn’t, but I was so upset by that feeling. It’s like you feel like a small child that’s just-

David Bashevkin: You’re right back of the child who messes up, spills the grape juice.

You did something wrong.

Lizzy Savetsky: So embarrassed. And I still get comments all the time, but now it doesn’t affect me in the same way. I don’t want to say that it doesn’t affect me at all, because of course I’m still human and I’m extremely sensitive, but I feel confident in who I am and the choices that I make and you don’t have to like them.

And if the OU invites me to come to their office, it’s because they believe in the work that I’m doing. Even if maybe I’m not ideologically 100% aligned with everything about their message, they very much are happy that I exist and that I’m doing the work that I do. And so I don’t have to come in pretending to be something I’m not.

David Bashevkin: And you feel that freedom.

Are there still situations where you’re getting criticism from within the community? It must be-

Lizzy Savetsky: I mean, every day online, I would say. Yeah. But I’m not going to change who I am to please others anymore. I did that and I don’t want to do that anymore.

I very much believe that God understands where I am and He’s going to meet me where I am and I don’t need other people’s approval.

David Bashevkin: I want to talk a little bit about your process, about how you post and stay informed about Israel. It used to be, let’s say 10 years ago, to be an Israel activist, you basically just needed, I don’t know, a big Israeli flag. I don’t know, Ha’am Im Ha’Golan.

I don’t know if you remember those posters. You had a good slogan and you show up to the marches. And now, especially because social media, information moves so much faster. You need reactions so much quicker.

And even an influencer, somebody like Lizzy Savetsky’s Instagram account, you can’t really articulate your opinion without knowing some of the details. So I want to give you an example. Let’s say they released the hostage.

This comes out. You now need to weigh in on it, understand how are people processing it. There are parts about it that we’re overjoyed about it. There are parts about it that the community is in pain over.

And you need to figure out what’s Lizzy’s approach to this going to be. Some issues, I guess you can search inside yourself, but these are real international, global issues. Where do you turn, Lizzy, to find out what should my approach to this issue be? How do I stay apprised of what the healthy, appropriate, what the right approach is to any given issue in Israel? It’s happening so fast. There’s so many people who are waiting for you.

You can keep it vague, I guess, but you actually have a lot of videos that are pretty specific and in the weeds.

Lizzy Savetsky: Yeah. I get very in the weeds. My approach is to always speak as Lizzy Savetsky, not on behalf of the Jewish people or the state of Israel, but to speak as things are affecting me.

And I think one of the reasons that I’ve been able to be successful is because I’m vulnerable. I let my guard down. I show up when I’m angry, when I’m crying. And I think that people see themselves in that and it resonates with them.

I am not CNN. Even as much as I spend a lot of my time and energy reporting on breaking news, I do it from my own lens. And I think that people tune in specifically to me to see how-

David Bashevkin: But I want to know how you develop that lens. I’m going to be able to, I am undereducated about Israel.

I should know more. It’s very clear because there are some topics that I’m deeply overeducated on. I know too much about and I’m always scared because I don’t know what… So sometimes what I do on Twitter, you don’t have to like share your voice.

I’ll just share a pasuk. I’ll just share like a verse in Tehillim and say-

That’s all I know. That’s all I know what to say …

I know how to daven. I know how to pray.

Lizzy Savetsky: That’s beautiful.

David Bashevkin: Who do you turn to? Do you have books? Do you have like a back end?

Lizzy Savetsky: You know, I will tell you that when I made the full pivot in 2021 and basically lost all the jobs that I had, all the brand partnerships, you know, everything, life looked completely different from a career perspective.

I decided to take it upon myself to really get educated. Yeah. Because I didn’t major in Middle Eastern studies or politics or world religion.

None of it. So I didn’t go to school for this. And I really felt like I had a lot that I wanted to learn.

I’m extremely curious. I love to learn. I would sit with a book all day. That’s my happy place.

David Bashevkin: So that’s what I’m asking you. Do you have clear memories of like the books that shaped your … Your vision of Israel?

Lizzy Savetsky: I mean, I have so many, so many. I mean, one of the first books that I remember falling in love with was Rabbi Riskin wrote a book. It was a collection of stories.

David Bashevkin: We love Rabbi Riskin. He was my father’s NCSY advisor. We wouldn’t be a frum family were it not for him.

Lizzy Savetsky: I don’t even remember the name of the book. That’s so sad, but it was so foundational for me and my viewpoint because it really helped me understand from an ideological perspective why Israel is critical to the Jews, is intrinsically intertwined with the Jews.

Right now, I am very into—maybe I shouldn’t say this on here, but I’m extremely into Meir Kahane.

David Bashevkin: Okay, cool.

Lizzy Savetsky: Very into Meir Kahane.

David Bashevkin: Okay. You have to go through what he was dealing with at that moment and-

Lizzy Savetsky: Honestly, he was right about everything. And it was too radical at the time that he got him killed, but it’s like Martin Luther King.

David Bashevkin: He was also like his personality.

Lizzy Savetsky: Yes, fiery.

David Bashevkin: He knew how to press everybody’s buttons.

Lizzy Savetsky: Yes, but I think like I’ve gone to an extreme now at this point in the war with my viewpoint on what Israel signifies for the Jewish people. And one of the things that I read in Kahane’s book a few months ago, it was right before my daughter’s bat mitzvah, and her parsha was Lech Lecha. And it’s so important, and I wish that every Jew could internalize this message that God said to Avraham, come with me to a land that I will show you where I will make you a great nation in Lech Lecha.

Meaning that Zionism and Judaism were born together in the same breath from God. And so there cannot be one without the other. When I think about my fight for Israel, I’m thinking about it from a Jewish perspective. This, to me, is not geopolitical.

This is Jewish. This is my biblical homeland, the land that God gave me, and the land that, God willing, one day I’ll return to. But that’s the lens I’m looking through. And even when I’m reporting on breaking news about what’s happening with antisemitism in America or what’s happening with the war, what’s happening with the hostages, it always comes back to God and Judaism for me.

David Bashevkin: I’ve always been moved by this because I never looked at your account as being like Hasbara or political. It’s deeply Jewish. How would you articulate your vision of Judaism in this moment? You’re not a rabbi, but you have a larger platform than any rabbi I know. I don’t know a rabbi who has a larger platform.

And you talk about Judaism, and you’re also coming from a place where you know what it’s like to grow up outside of the tri-state area Orthodox infrastructure, where we take so much for granted. There’s a real awakening happening now where people who grow up outside of what I’m deliberately calling the Orthodox world, and they’re trying to imagine from the non-Orthodox world what is a realistic vision that my Jewish life could be or become. Because not everybody, and maybe you disagree with me, not everybody’s going to be able to fully integrate into the Orthodox community. So I’m curious for you, when you’re dealing with Jews around the world and you’re touching them in a very real place about their religious identity, do you have like a vision for what you think the common Judaism or what Jewish life should be that we should be building post-October 7th now? I started recently.

Lizzy Savetsky: I may cry when I talk about this. I’ve actually never spoken about this, but I started recently every Friday night when I light my Shabbat candles. I say this prayer. I say, God, if there are any Jews out there who were like me, who are craving some sort of connection to you, who are just now waking up to the fact that they’re Jewish, but they don’t even understand what to do with that or where to go, give them that window of opportunity like you gave me to help them get closer to you.

Because I have so much compassion for my fellow Jews around the world who don’t have what we have as a strong community. Because it is the only thing that has been getting me through this past year and a half is knowing that I get to go to shul every Shabbos and cry with my community and pray for our hostages in the State of Israel and our soldiers. And I have that because I feel so lonely in my everyday life in this fight. But when I go there, I know that I’m not alone.

I know that so many people feel like me. But for Jews out there who are just waking up to what it really means to be Jewish, understanding that they’re hated for something that they didn’t even choose, something that they were born with, feeling this longing for connection, but really having no knowledge or background. And I want them to get what I had, which is just this moment of grace from God where they’re given a chance.

David Bashevkin: Where you really discover like where you came from.

When people reach out to you, and there must be people who, I’m sure you’re probably not able to respond to every DM, even between you and … your assistant, but people reach out to you and you’re probably dealing with like also like celebrities, Jewish celebrities who are like awakening to something. And you know that a lot of the answer is living within an embodied Jewish community. It’s very hard to create the Jewish experience on your own.

Lizzy Savetsky: It’s very hard.

David Bashevkin: But where do you tell them to start? I’m so curious. People must be reaching out to you more than any outreach rabbi I’ve ever met. Where do you say this is a good starting point?

Lizzy Savetsky: Here’s an example. I got a message from a woman who was dealing with an incredibly antisemitic teacher at her child’s school, a public school.

And there were several Jewish families in the school that were trying to get the school to take it seriously, and they weren’t. She writes me, and she says, what do I do? So I have to meditate on this for a minute. Took my time, pause, think about it. And then I get back to her, and I say, you know what the best thing that you can do is rally together those Jews and anyone who supports you who’s not a Jew and have a Shabbat dinner and lean into your Jewish identity and feel that closeness and connection.

Because the very thing that this person wants to take away from you, don’t let her take it away. Lean into it more. Embrace it. That’s the victory here.

Of course, like it would be great to get this teacher fired, but it’s even greater to enhance your own identity and to strengthen your own Jewish self. And she wrote me back. She said they started doing this every month where they were having these Shabbat dinners because they didn’t even realize that it was something that was missing. Things like that.

Or, you know, I’m not Chabad. Like, I’m not out there trying to get all Jews to light Shabbat candles or keep Shabbos. I mean, I would love for all Jews to do that. I’m not handing out candles on the street corner, but I’ve seen so many Jewish women bake challah for the first time in their lives this past year, because people are just simply craving a sense of connection to our ancient heritage.

And it’s something that I think is a real opportunity for people like you and me to capitalize on. I’m very blessed that I have a pretty decent amount of my followers are not observant. And so to them, I am the voice of Judaism. Yeah, exactly.

Which is a little scary, but you know, I just want to make it accessible. I don’t want it to feel intimidating. Like to me, it felt very intimidating. And if I don’t do everything, then maybe I just shouldn’t even do anything.

David Bashevkin: Are there any parts of the Orthodox community that still bother you?

Lizzy Savetsky: I don’t think it’s necessarily isolated to the Orthodox Jewish world. I think it exists in every community, but if you ask me what’s something that makes you mad, it would be seeing Orthodox Jews tear each other down and judge each other because it’s just such a chilul Hashem and it’s just so unnecessary. And it’s always easy to spot the bad and to point out the bad and to, you know, to speak negatively about each other. But it’s harder actually to speak positively and to say, well, maybe I wouldn’t do it that way.

But maybe she has a reason why she is doing it that way. You know, I’ve made a point that I never publicly criticize the State of Israel, the government, the prime minister, no matter what I may think, I will never publicly criticize. I will also never publicly criticize my fellow Jews unless there’s like some real deep exception. Like for example, right now, Natalie Portman just today for her book club posted some Palestinian author and I just did whatever.

Like I will call up my fellow Jews from time to time.

David Bashevkin: It kills me because I—

Lizzy Savetsky: When I saw Hollywood burning, maybe you should cut this out. But when I saw the Hollywood sign with the flames around it—

David Bashevkin: It was like a metaphor.

Lizzy Savetsky: I was about to do a video.

Like, I mean—

David Bashevkin: I’m not going to say it, but there’s been a lot of, I definitely have felt disappointment of a lot of the Jewish, you know, celebrity voices.

Lizzy Savetsky: But I think at the end of the day, and this goes for everything, the Hollywood Jews, the Orthodox Jews that are judging. Like I try to just keep my expectations very low. If they disappoint me, it’s because I expected them to be better.

So that’s my problem because I’m putting that expectation on them.

David Bashevkin: I’m curious how you respond after all these transformations that you’ve been through and you’ve built a life for yourself. And it sounds like you’ve really fashioned a core after going through, for sure going through a 12 step process and really like reflecting on yourself. But now you have this life where like, it’s very picturesque.

You’re married to an accomplished surgeon. You have this incredible platform of your own. How do you respond when people look at you and they still say like, easy for you to say, you know, you have this charmed life.

Lizzy Savetsky: I get that every day, by the way.

David Bashevkin: Easy for you. You have this charmed life and they look at you because they’re only interacting you on the surface level. So does that still hurt that like to be able to fully break through and be seen with the depth and the nuance? You put so much of yourself out there.

How do you respond that after all of this work, all of these transformations, there must be people who still kind of relate to you on a very surface level.

And they almost want you to relate to yourself on a surface level. Is it like easy for you to say, look around, this is a charmed life.

Lizzy Savetsky: Right. I think of it.

It’s almost funny to me because it’s like I could have just lived a very … Yeah. Maybe just more simple life. I didn’t have to put myself through this, put my family through this.

I chose to. It didn’t feel like a choice to me. It felt like a responsibility, obligation, but I know I’m not doing it for the approval. So as much as it stings on the surface, when I hear something like that, it was never my motivation for doing this.

I’m doing this for my children, for their future and for the Jewish people. So there’s always going to be naysayers and haters. And I think if people can’t see beyond the surface with me now with the work that I’m doing every day, then they’re never going to. And that’s really not my problem.

David Bashevkin: My final question is you are in this kind of ecosystem where people are sharing Jewish ideas, publicly ideas about Israel. Do you still find that there are some Jewish ideas, Jewish values that need a mic, that need a stronger articulation, that need more people to pick up whatever microphone, proverbial microphone you have from the Jewish world? What do you look at at this moment is like the idea that for ourselves, not for the outside world, that the Jewish world needs to be embracing and needs to be articulating more clearly in this moment.

Lizzy Savetsky: I think that we’ve been so hyper focused on defending the truth for Israel and on fighting antisemitism. And I think that our primary focus needs to be on our own Jewish identity.

And I had an interesting conversation with somebody this past week that really was one of those aha moments. And he said tikkun olam is actually what has hurt us because we have this Jewish concept and I’m talking about every religious Jewish level. It is a Jewish value. Jews are across the board, no matter how religious, even the Jews that identify as atheists, the most philanthropic people in the country, you know, take care of each other, social activists, very concerned with justice.

And we have given so much of ourselves to everyone else. And we have really, really neglected our own core and our identity, our connection. I think anyone can feel this in a certain way. Like even if we are ultra-Orthodox, are we just going through the motions? Are we actually connecting? Are our children doing the things that they’re doing out of passion and connection and feeling or because it’s the rule? Or because that’s just their surroundings?

I think we need to be doing the things that make us feel Jewish and awakening that passion within us across the board. And as much as it’s important to take care of the people in the world around us, we need to focus on ourselves right now because we are truly in a life or death moment. And we cannot delude ourselves into believing that turning against our own people to fight for our enemies or fight for the people that have not stood beside us is going to somehow save us because it never did throughout history. And so this is the time for Jews to focus on Jews, focus on what makes you feel good about being Jewish, what connects you to our thousands of years of heritage.

We have to be so deeply rooted in who we are that no matter what gust of wind, of hateful wind blows our way, we will stand firmly. And I think that’s really where everyone needs to be focused.

David Bashevkin: Lizzy Savetsky just the vision that you have articulated, not just about Israel and even not just about Yiddishkeit, but learning how to take something very intimate, very personal, very private and project that to the world. It is really an incredible model of outreach, of being able to take your own experiences, your own upbringing and share it with vulnerability and honesty to the world.

It is so incredibly moving. I always wrap up my interviews with more rapid fire questions. Always love books. I’m curious, is there a seminal book on Jewish practice, Jewish thought that played a big influence in your life? I know you already mentioned Rabbi Riskin.

That is like a message of Judaism that you love to project outwards.

Lizzy Savetsky: The Rebbetzin, Rebbetzin Jungreis. She’s one of my absolute heroes and I’m close with her daughter, but I never got to meet her.

David Bashevkin: I mean this seriously.

I never put, you have a little bit of Rebbetzin Jungreis energy.

Lizzy Savetsky: It’s not the first time I’ve heard that. Very honored.

Truly. Because when she was at her peak in Hineni, I mean…

Lizzy Savetsky: She was fierce.

David Bashevkin: Fierce. And she didn’t have the social media.

And you try to wonder what she would be like. I didn’t know her when she was in her twenties and thirties.

Lizzy Savetsky: Yeah. She’s an absolute hero of mine.

And I love the book. The Rebbetzin is really a compilation of so many of her writings. And so it’s a really good one.

David Bashevkin: Rebbetzin Jungreis.

I love that you brought her back for our listeners. What a great name. My next question is somebody gave you a great deal of money and allowed you to take a sabbatical with no responsibilities whatsoever. You have to go back to school and get a PhD.

What do you think the subject and title of your dissertation would be?

Lizzy Savetsky: It’s so interesting because I’m so curious about so many things. My interests go from science and space. To music to … I guess it would have to be some sort of interdisciplinary dissertation.

David Bashevkin: Gallatin.

Lizzy Savetsky: I was in Gallatin.

David Bashevkin: Exactly. It doesn’t surprise me.

Lizzy Savetsky: So I was in Gallatin. I’m very into the interdisciplinary.

My favorite thing to do is to tie all of my interests together with some beautiful poetic…

David Bashevkin: So what do you think you’d study?

Lizzy Savetsky: I would study the universe. I’m deeply fascinated by our solar system.

David Bashevkin: Really like science, like astrophysics, that kind of stuff?

Lizzy Savetsky: One of my favorite books is Genesis and the Big Bang.

David Bashevkin: Ooh, Gerald Schroeder.

Lizzy Savetsky: Love him. Got to take classes from him at Aish. He’s incredible.

David Bashevkin: Sure.

Lizzy Savetsky: I’m sorry. This is not very good at rapid fire, but…

David Bashevkin: No, this is great.

I like because you always surprise our listeners. I think if they were to guess, be like, what is Lizzy going to study in that imagined sabbatical? Astrophysics.

Lizzy Savetsky: Astrophysics.

David Bashevkin: Astrophysics.

I love it. I’m always curious about people’s sleep schedules. What time do you go to sleep at night and what time do you wake up in the morning?

Lizzy Savetsky: I’m always up at six. Actually, that’s a lie.

Today, I was up at eight, but I never do that. I sleep…

I’m up at six every morning.

David Bashevkin: You slept in.

Lizzy Savetsky: I slept in. I’m up at six every day. At Shabbos, sometimes I’ll sleep till seven.

David Bashevkin: For real? Oh, you’re legit.

You wake up early.

Lizzy Savetsky: I wake up early. I’m an early riser.

David Bashevkin: Shabbos morning, you are up…

Lizzy Savetsky: I get all of my good work done in the morning.

At night, I’m at a waste. I can’t.

Bedtime is variable.

It depends how tired I am. I try to go to bed before midnight, but it doesn’t always happen.

David Bashevkin: Lizzy Savetsky, thank you so much for joining us today.

Lizzy Savetsky: Thank you for having me.

It was a pleasure.

David Bashevkin: There was a time where the only really famous Jews people knew about or were known were Adam Sandler and Natalie Portman. We’d have to wait. When they throw a bone to the Jewish community and acknowledge “The Chanukah Song,” or there was this interview of Natalie Portman speaking in Hebrew, people would get so excited.

Oh my gosh, there’s a real celebrity speaking in another language. I think it is so beautiful that we are in a time where we don’t have to wait for the scraps anymore. There are people who have incredible audiences like Lizzy Savetsky, and who are really using it, not just to wink every six months at the Jewish people, but to talk directly to a spectrum of the Jewish people that has probably never, ever been addressed in all of Jewish history in one shot. People who have several hundred thousand followers on social media.

You can imagine with any post, what they’re reaching. The numbers are astounding. We’re living in a time of Jewish history that I don’t think there’s any parallel to this, where there was one moment where potentially thousands and thousands can all be reached. It is truly remarkable.

And the fact that we live in an era where there are people like Lizzy, who in any other time would not have had the serious attention of the Jewish community. I think it is remarkable that we live in a time where somebody like Lizzy can and does have the attention of a wide swath of the Jewish community. Because when you have voices that otherwise would never have had a microphone, you are able to reach Jews who otherwise would never have been reached. And that is the power of Jewish outreach.

That is the power of social media. And that is why I am so grateful and impressed for people like Lizzy Savetsky and so many others who are using their platform to take Torah and transform it into the world of social media. So thank you so much for listening. This episode, like so many of our episodes, was edited by my dearest friend, Denah Emerson.

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This transcript was produced by Sofer.AI.