Transcripts are lightly edited—please excuse any imperfections.
Sruli Fruchter: Which is more important for Israel, Judaism or democracy?
Rula Daood: You’re asking a Palestinian? It’s a good one. Hi, my name is Rula Daood, and I am the national co-director of Standing Together. And this is 18 Questions, 40 Israeli Thinkers, from 18Forty.
Sruli Fruchter: From 18Forty, this is 18 Questions, 40 Israeli Thinkers, and I’m your host, Sruli Fruchter.
18 Questions, 40 Israeli Thinkers is a podcast that interviews Israel’s leading voices to explore those critical questions people are having today on Zionism, the Israel-Hamas War, democracy, morality, Judaism, peace, Israel’s future, and so much more. Every week, we introduce you to fresh perspectives and challenging ideas about Israel from across the political spectrum that you won’t find anywhere else. So if you’re the kind of person who wants to learn, understand, and dive deeper into Israel, then join us on our journey as we pose 18 pressing questions to the 40 Israeli journalists, scholars, and religious thinkers you need to hear from today. For a very long time since this podcast first began, I was very conscious of the scope of who we were bringing on and who we were platforming.
And I think many of the guests until now have been right, left, center. There hasn’t really been anyone that has pushed the limits particularly far. But as we’re rounding out to almost our 30th thinker, I’ve gotten so many requests from people saying that they want to hear more far-left voices. They want to hear more far-right voices.
Not people who are inflammatory or disrespectful, but people who really are implanted in Israel. And there were some people who were more far-right on our list of who we wanted to include in the podcast. Scheduling issues had them pushed off, so hopefully in the near future we’ll have them on. But I think it’s an important clarification, A, again for that point of sensitivity, to recognize that for so many people, whether they’re on the right or on the left, whenever we’re talking about Israel, the Jewish state, it inherently becomes a very personal and sensitive matter that everyone either is directly affected by or is one life removed from.
And of course we do have limits. It’s not a free-for-all of who we bring onto the podcast, right? We would never have someone on who’s calling for the destruction of the State of Israel or who is calling for abominable things to happen. But if we are trying to provide for our audience, really trying to engage in what are the conversations taking place in Israel today, then what comes with that is that everyone should and hopefully ideally will feel uncomfortable with different thinkers. Write to us, publish, post on social media.
We hope that this podcast and every podcast will always be the starting point of our larger conversations. Since the early days after October 7th, 2023, when Hamas terrorists stormed Israel’s borders, there has been one grassroots movement or group in Israel that has just kept popping up in my feed, online, in the media, and that is Standing Together or Omdim Beyachad in Hebrew. Founded in 2015, Standing Together is a progressive left-wing movement in Israel that is grassroots, that works from the people, in organizing, in protests, in demonstrations, that brings together Arab, Palestinian, and Jewish Israelis in creating a society of, quote, peace, justice, and independence for Israelis and Palestinians, Jews and Arabs, end quote. And that’s not exclusively about the conflict itself.
They also are huge advocates for minority issues with Mizrahim, immigrants, women, etc., and also prioritize economic issues and climate change. They are fervently against the established order of the current, or I should say the past, left-wing political parties or NGOs in Israel and find themselves in a very interesting spot given that they depend on Israeli-Palestinian, Israeli-Arab partnership for their movement. The Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions movement, BDS, has actually denounced and boycotted Standing Together for normalizing and distracting from, quote, Israel’s ongoing genocide in Gaza, which I think is very telling that such a radical group as BDS sees Standing Together, which is trying to build partnerships, again, from a very leftist starting point, as antithetical to BDS’s goals. And I think that that is one of the many things that makes Standing Together stand out in the media, and I have seen so many articles that mentioned or feature Standing Together in praise or just in reporting for its ability to mobilize such large swaths of Israeli society.
And that is very much what Standing Together is trying to do. In their words, they’re trying to change the political will of Israeli society between Jews and Arabs, Palestinians and Jews, and everyone else, to create a vision of Israel that the group sees as ideal. They were mentioned in The New York Times, The Times of Israel, The Forward, Haaretz, The Guardian, Time magazine, and much else. And the reason that I preface with this is because if the goal of our series is to display the active discourse taking place in Israel, as we always say, between right and left, secular and religious, then I felt that we needed to interview and feature Standing Together to fully display the extent of what Israelis are talking about and grappling with.
One of the many interesting points since October 7th, and definitely over the last few years, is what the reality looks like for the Israeli left, which has continuously shrank over the last few decades. And that said, this group is definitely of the more left wing that we have featured so far on this podcast. They are anti-war, anti-occupation, and fervent protesters against the current Israeli government. And so I’m sure that of our listeners, some will agree, some will disagree with all or some of their points, but for us, the most important thing for our purposes and for the goal of this podcast is to recognize what we gain when we get a more accurate depiction of the discourse taking place in Israeli society today.
On that note, I’m excited to share that today’s guest is the national co-director of Standing Together, Rula Daood. She is a member of the group’s elected leadership, but Rula actually began her professional life as a speech pathologist before becoming a political activist, organizing around Jewish and Arab partnership in Israel’s mixed cities. Since joining Standing Together in the late 2010s, Rula’s political and administrative work has helped propel the group’s dramatic growth and success over the last few years. Alongside Alon-Lee Green, the other co-director who is Jewish, she was recently featured as one of Time magazine’s 100 Emerging Global Leaders of 2024.
But what lends Rula the most unique perspective in the work that she does is that she is an Israeli citizen born in Israel who is also a Christian Palestinian. Born and raised in the Galilee village of Kefar Yasif, she now lives in Tel Aviv and is a driving force behind Standing Together today. I’m excited for you to hear this interview, to find things that you agree with, disagree with, that make you think, and I’ll emphasize as I always do, and I’m trying to be sensitive to our audience and to our community because everything happening in Israel today is not an abstract issue, but is personal and relates to us on individual levels. That much of my goal coming into this podcast and into every episode that I have, whether it’s someone who’s right or left, is to try and understand the extent of their views, to challenge insofar as it allows us to get a better perspective of what the guest thinks and how they see the world.
And so I want to hear your thoughts. I want to hear your questions, your critique, your feedback. If you have questions that you want us to ask or guests that you want us to feature, shoot us an email at info@18forty.org. And be sure to subscribe and share with friends so that we can reach new listeners.
But before we head into the episode, I want to make another pitch. 18Forty’s annual survey is linked in the description of this podcast. If you can take a few minutes with the potential to win books or cash prize and fill out the survey, it is so helpful for us and our growth. We are going through tremendous opportunities, expanding our media, building our community, and growing our resources.
So your feedback and your perspective on 1840 and on our direction is so crucial for us. So with all that said, thank you so much and I can’t wait for this episode. Here is 18 Questions with Rula Daood. So we’ll begin where we always do.
As an Israeli and as a Palestinian, how are you feeling at this moment in Israeli history?
Rula Daood: In this moment where we have a ceasefire and we have an agreement. At this moment, I feel more of a hope that maybe something can change. It is very hard to live through a war such as the one we’ve had since the 7th of October. We’ve had too many wars before.
On Gaza, with Gaza, with Hamas, but this one was very different to many people. Seeing what happened on the 7th of October and the 15 months after in Gaza wasn’t an easy thing to live. Right now, for the past three days, I think, for me at least, I feel as if I can breathe somehow. Like something has changed and we can breathe.
At least we don’t see any more pictures of people being bombed. We see pictures of people going back home, coming back home. So it is a moment of, I wouldn’t say joy, because it’s very hard to be joyful. It’s still at the reality that we live, but I feel that maybe it is a crucial time.
Like this point is a very crucial point for us to speak about the alternative that we see and how to reach to that alternative and what we need to do in order to be, you know, people living in different circumstances and a different future. So I don’t think I have a specific word, but I have a bit more hope than I used to have two weeks ago.
Sruli Fruchter: Yeah. It’s interesting. You said that you feel like you can finally breathe. What do you feel was suffocating you, you might say?
Rula Daood: Oh God, everything. Well, when the 7th of October happened, it was, you know, many people had different feelings. Each one of us would talk about the day of like the walking up of the 7th of October.
I live in Jaffa. So I woke up at 6:30 to the sirens. And the first time I thought I was dreaming. But then the second time I understood like there is a siren, something is happening.
But it was very puzzling for me because in here when there is a war, you know a war is coming. When something has happened between Israel and Gaza, you know, because Here being Tel Aviv. Here in Tel Aviv, here in Israel, we know something is about to happen. Like there’s a buildup to that war or to the point of aggression.
But the 7th of October, like nobody kind of knew it was going to happen. And we just woke up to sirens. And two hours to it, we couldn’t understand still what was really happening. The media wasn’t talking about it.
No, you know, Israeli official was talking about what was happening. And everybody started getting, you know, images from the south and then after it from the Nova. And I started realizing something huge is happening. Something that we’ve never really experienced before was happening.
And the first thing you, for me at least, I understood is that many people are going to be killed on both sides. After the images of the Nova, people being kidnapped and horrifying images, I immediately start thinking about not just, you know, the people in the south, but then immediately I thought to myself, Oh God, how Israel is going to retaliate on Gaza and the people in Gaza. And a day after it happened and the images from both sides were very crazy. And, you know, as a Palestinian citizen living within the Israeli society, but also being part of the Palestinian people, it is not easy to live through such times.
It is not easy to sit and see the pain of two people, both people. It’s not easy to see, you know, the people becoming more extreme, not being able to hold, how do you say, the ideology that they had before, like pain and anger consuming everyone. And also being afraid of speaking a different language than the language that was at the first, you know, half a year after the 7th of October, which was a very extreme language, a language of no innocent people in Gaza, kill them all, a pain within, you know, Jewish Israeli citizens and especially people who’ve lost their families. So it was 15 months of feeling that you are choking, many things are changing and you need to hold that kind of a sane voice of telling people what we must do and how we must do it.
So it was overwhelming in many ways. And eventually having a ceasefire, a real agreement, it is like, you know…
Sruli Fruchter: Like a weight off your chest.
Rula Daood: Yeah, exactly.
It’s like being able to breathe again. Okay, now we have a ceasefire. Okay, things will stop, will pause for a time so we can regroup and we can rethink and we can, you know, breathe a bit and maybe also celebrate, you know, that eventually people care about the lives of other people and it’s happening. So it’s been a very tough 15 months. Yes.
Sruli Fruchter: Can you share more about your experience of October 7th itself? Y
Rula Daood: Yeah. Well, I woke up, as I’ve said, to the sirens at 6:30. I wasn’t in my apartment.
I was in my partner’s apartment. In Jaffa, actually. In Jaffa.
And the sirens happened and there were like roommates to roommates. So we were two Palestinians and two Jews in the same apartment.
And the sirens happened and all of us went. We had a shelter in their home. So we went, all of us, to the shelter and we didn’t really realize, we didn’t understand what was happening. And then, like, you know, sitting with them for two hours in the shelter, you couldn’t go out because there were a non-stop, you know, sirens because of missiles coming.
And missiles were coming and you were hearing, you know, the Kippat Barzel, the Iron Dome. And it was really, really scary situation. I don’t really want to go back to that time because it was like really paralyzing because you didn’t understand what was happening.
Sruli Fruchter: What were you thinking in that moment?
Rula Daood: I was thinking at the first hour, what happened? Like, really, what happened? Like, what’s happening? Like, why are, you know, missiles coming from, from Gaza? There’s like no reason, but there’s always a reason.
But I think like there was no reason, nothing was happening.
Sruli Fruchter: But you didn’t have a reason to expect that it would come.
Rula Daood: Yeah, exactly. But then the first image we get was people in this white Jeep with guns, roaming the streets, one of the streets in the south.
And yet I couldn’t understand because I was saying to myself, people can’t really go out of Gaza. Like people live under siege in Gaza and they can’t leave Gaza without, you know, Israeli permission. But then you saw people with guns in homes of other peoples and on the roofs of other peoples. And it became, you know, more crazy that, are these like really Gazans who came out of Gaza and they’re doing this? And still the first two hours, I couldn’t really grasp, you know, the magnitude of it.
But then other images started, you know, coming up in social media, not on TV, social media. People from the south, from the surrounding of Gaza started filming and asking, where’s the police? Where’s the army? Who’s going to come? Who’s helping us? Like we have people from Gaza within our homes. We have people who want, you know, wanting to kill us. And that was the moment I really understood what was happening.
And I think many people started understanding that there was an attack, that Hamas were able to come out of Gaza and to get to the, you know, to the surrounding of Gaza. And nobody was really there to help. And it continued for many hours. And through these hours, we were still getting images, you know, from people who just filmed it.
And then from people, from Hamas people who were there and were filming it. So it was a bit of a crazy. And I think it is crazy because when we talk about Gaza, at least for me, and I know, you know, I’ve never been to Gaza, but I know that Gaza has been under siege for 17 years.
Sruli Fruchter: Do you have family in Gaza?
Rula Daood: No, I don’t have family, thank God.
I don’t have family in Gaza, but I do have friends who have families in Gaza. And I know how Gaza looks and it’s not easy to get out of Gaza. It can’t. And even when there was like the marches of return, the marches of freedom. People couldn’t like really get in. They were even shot.
So people can’t really get in from, go out from Gaza into Israel. And it was, you know, not really understandable that they were able. And then I saw the video of people, you know, breaking through the fences and coming inside of the south, the surrounding of Gaza. And I understand that something huge is happening.
But then I was, I couldn’t understand how there was no one. Like people were left alone for many hours and nobody knew what to do. There was like really no police, no army, but you’re supposed to have army in there because they’re like somehow a border, but there wasn’t. And people were left alone.
And that happened like four hours. That was the case. And then we get the images of the Nova of the party. And I knew that some of my friends were at that party.
Sruli Fruchter: Oh, wow.
Rula Daood: Yes. Because she said that she’s going to a party with other friends and the Nova and stuff like that. And when I understood it was the Nova, I started calling.
Just took my phone and started ringing again and again and again and again. And again, there was no answer. And it was, you know, 45 minutes of being, I would say paralyzed, like thinking of something really awful that may happen to my friends. And after 45 minutes, she called me back.
And I’m like, where are you? And she was a Palestinian also. And she was like, I just woke up. And I was like, where are you? She said, I’m home in Haifa. I didn’t go to the party.
We didn’t go. None of us went to the party because we didn’t have a car and we decided we didn’t want to go.
Sruli Fruchter: Wow.
Rula Daood: Yes. And that was a moment of, you know, relief. I’ve never felt before. I don’t know. I don’t think I have the way to describe what I felt. But it’s how somehow like your friends were spared.
Sruli Fruchter: Wow.
Rula Daood: If we can say, if we can use, you know, that way of experience expressing ourselves. So, yes.
And then more images started coming and it was big and it was huge. And through the day I understood that many people have been killed. Friends, families of people I know, families of activists I work with, I go out to the streets with, were also killed. Many people were kidnapped.
Young people who were just, you know, went there for a party. People were taken from their homes, kil led at their homes. It was a war zone somehow. And a day after, it’s just like you don’t even have the time to grasp what’s happening, to understand really what was happening, the magnitude of it.
Our government started bombing Gaza. And then the images of, you know, I saw of the South immediately were replaced by images coming from Gaza, from people being bombed and being forced to leave their homes. And from that point on, it was 15 months of nightmare to all of us. Many lives lost, too much destruction and a lot of hatred between people, especially here within our society, within the Israeli society.
But the 7th of October started with me not understanding what’s happening, being so afraid of what was happening.
Sruli Fruchter: And wondering about your friends.
Rula Daood: Wondering about my friend and then wondering about people and then just like being again consumed by this fear of understanding that something huge is going to happen. Many people are going to be killed.
Rula Daood: And it happened. Yes.
Sruli Fruchter: So at the moment that we’re speaking, there was a ceasefire reached between Israel and Hamas a few days ago. So over the last 15 months, and I’m curious, given the work that you and Standing Together do together, what do you think has been Israel’s greatest success and greatest mistake in the current war against Hamas or in the war against Hamas?
Rula Daood: When you say Israel, do you mean the government or do you mean the society?
Sruli Fruchter: I’ll let you interpret the question how you like.
Rula Daood: Okay, because I do differentiate.
Sruli Fruchter: So feel free to answer differently depending on both of those options.
Rula Daood: If we are talking about the politics and the government, I think this government has failed to give people the feeling of security, of safety again and again and again. The October 7th was a huge day, a scary day.
And at times of war, we can be closest to having solutions if we choose to. And this government chose to not have a solution. I am sorry if I’m being negative, but I don’t see any successes by this government. There’s no success because this is the 12th war between Israel and Gaza, maybe even the 13th.
I can’t count. I stopped counting. Too many wars between Israel and Gaza. And in each and every war, you know, Bibi Netanyahu said the same thing, this time we will eradicate Hamas.
But when the war ends, when that same round ends, we end up with the same things. We still have Hamas, the only, you know, leadership in Gaza because there is no real other leadership or any alternative to Hamas. And Israel would still negotiate, the government will still negotiate with Hamas because it is the only leadership. There is no other alternative.
So nothing has really changed. The only thing that changed, I would say, is that we do have a ceasefire. And it’s not because of this government. It is because of the people who went out each and every week to demonstrate, especially the families of the hostages, activists who demanded a ceasefire, who demanded a stop to this war, who demanded that we talk about the lives of people on both sides, that we deserve to live, that we want the hostages back and we want the suffering in Gaza to stop.
So the success is a success of people who didn’t give up, who went out for 14 months to the streets, which is huge when you would think about it, holding a weekly demonstration for 14 months, fighting for something for 14 months. It is huge. It means you have a lot of will within people who go out to the streets. And I do think if that this movement wasn’t there in the streets, we wouldn’t get to a ceasefire.
Maybe this war would continue for more and more and more months. Maybe. I see this government as a government that has failed again and again and again by giving us any alternatives, by giving us any solutions and by giving us safety. We don’t feel safe in here.
We don’t feel safe. Even if we have a ceasefire right now, a lot of people still go to their beds at night. I do. And I still put a jacket on the door and I put the keys in a certain place that if there would be a siren, I would get up and go downstairs and do that quickly because I don’t feel I still don’t feel safe.
And I’m talking, you know, in here in Israel. So this government has failed. But regarding the society with everything that happened, you know, at the beginning of this war, many people were consumed by their anger. They would say difficult and harsh stuff such as kill them all.
Nobody deserves to live. No innocent people in Gaza. But there has been a switch within people for the past 15 months. And I do salute people for being able to speak about solutions and what is in their best.
And I don’t know if you’ve seen in Standing Together, we have a campaign and it’s called “Yes, Peace!” And in this campaign, we have figures, both, you know, Jewish and Palestinian citizens of Israel who have been speaking loudly about solutions. And people even who lost their, you know, families to the 7th of October, who would say about, we don’t want more wars. This retaliation will not bring us anything.
We need solutions. And the only solution is by understanding that both of us on this land are not leaving and we deserve to live in security and peace. And the only solution is peace. So there is, you know, a success by being able to, you know, hold that thought and still hold people together who believe in peace and solutions.
And still being able to go out to the streets despite this government and despite the fact that people on this government didn’t really want a ceasefire agreement for so long. So, yeah.
Sruli Fruchter: I have two questions on that and then move on to a new area to discuss. Speaking now in January 2025, I know that Standing Together after October 7th, I believe it was the first day within the first week afterward, were calling for a ceasefire and for a hostage deal as well.
Israeli society more generally has shifted over the last 15 months to now that there has been the military campaign and the war in Gaza. How do you find that Standing Together is reflective of the will or of the wants of Israeli society when even the more left wing in the Israeli government right now in the Knesset were supportive of, you know, whether they may have had qualms with how it was carried out or their particular direction of the war still believe that military action was necessary after October 7. Is that something that Standing Together or you personally have agreed with or seen as completely misguided?
Rula Daood: That military solutions is a solution?
Sruli Fruchter: Well, even the more left wing of the Israeli government did feel after October 7 that military action was needed as a response to October 7. What do you think that they are missing that you disagree with?
Rula Daood: Well I do disagree with the idea that military solution is a solution, because it’s not. Again, this is not the first war between Israel and Hamas. It is the 11th, 12th one. And in all of them, it ends up with a military solution that brings up more destruction and more people killed but leaves us at the same place. Military solution is not a solution. It is not an alternative. On the contrary, it takes us to a place where you have more hatred. Speaking of solutions becomes more far from people. If we would talk about just facts, okay? Right now, Israel have killed, according to the official numbers, 45,000 Palestinians in Gaza. This is the official number. 16,000 of them are kids. Now, all of these people who have been killed, the families who are left of these people, it is hard to come to expect from them to want to have peace with Israel, because all they have lived through is pain.
And if you look at the numbers of people who have been killed in Israel, I think it’s 1,700 people killed in this war, if you would talk to them, many of these people don’t say, there’s no partner. What they did to us on October 7 was catastrophic. We don’t really want to have anything to do with these people. Many of these people say, we don’t want to have any connection with them because they killed us or they’re still killing us.
And taking that anger of people and thinking that another military action is gonna change the perspective of people is being completely wrong. Because with each and every war that ended with a military action, nothing changed at the end of the day. Our government hasn’t changed. Hamas leadership hasn’t changed. It is still in Gaza and it will be the only leadership right now if no other action has been taken, political action. And if we don’t speak about real solutions, nothing will happen. I do believe that, and also in Standing Together, that the solution is not a military solution. The solution is giving people the ability to choose to have an alternative. Growing an idea of real peace and real security is the solution. In politics, if you don’t give people alternatives, they don’t have anything else to choose from the menu.
So, for example, if people in Gaza still have Hamas as a leadership, they will not choose something different. They will say we don’t really have something to choose from. The only thing they have is Hamas. And here, if we don’t give another leadership that is not the right-wing fascist government that we have right now, people will not see any other alternative. So instead in Standing Together we see that our work is to speak and to build that political will within people to choose from a different alternative, a different political view.
And view is a view of our ideology and how we see things happening is that we need solutions that will bring us security, and it’s not a military action. It is an action of speaking of political agreements, of getting into not just a ceasefire but an end to this war and stop to this war that can provide people that real sense of security. Because right now, we don’t really have security again. And if we still have the main leadership, nothing will really change. In a couple of years from now, if people don’t have an alternative to Hamas in Gaza and we don’t have another government in here, maybe we go to another round with Gaza and Hamas.
Sruli Fruchter: I have one quick follow-up before we move on to a new area, to discuss, when you cited the figure of 45,000 Palestinians who were killed in Gaza, you know that combines combatants and civilians, but I guess I’m curious just from your mention of this, how have you found the reaction within Israeli society and as a Palestinian that, from what you’ve been saying, you’re kind of placed in a space where you feel compassion, connection to the victims of both sides of this war and since October 7 and before then. What has that response been like in your friend group, in your family?
Rula Daood: Well in my family, I am the third generation to the Nakba. My grandma has her own story of Nakba, of how she was first to leave her home, but then she was able to come back as a kid. For her, when this war started, my grandma said that I do understand that people don’t want to leave their homes. Because they don’t. Seeing the numbers of how many people were killed made everybody angry. Everybody around me.
I would say that I am a bit more blessed, having friends around me that do understand that this war is affecting everybody. And they see the victims who have been killed. And these are the closest groups to me. Having these groups and these people around me enabled me to feel that we still have more compassion toward one another, and I didn’t really have Jewish friends who would say these are not my friends.
But with each and every month that passed, some of my friends started saying there’s no hope to this place. Like we can’t really stay here. Look what’s happening. Nobody is stopping it. And many of my friends started talking about leaving this place, whether Jews or Palestinians. It was a conversation we had in many tables because people started feeling that there’s no hope in her.
But my first circles, again, I had people who really understood what was happening, people who wanted this war to stop, to end for everybody who’s around us. But a lot of anger in many discussions.
One of the things we do face is, as Palestinians, and especially after the 7th of October, you couldn’t really speak, really say what you think, because the 7th of October was horrible to Jews. You couldn’t talk about the real Palestinian pain because there was a massacre. And you were supposed to be, okay we need to be compassionate toward our Jewish friends and you can’t say something about the politics or the bombings of Gaza. And it went on for too many months. Not just personally but there was a huge persecution toward Palestinians who would say anything about Gaza. Students in campuses, doctors, workers, the tension was really high, and the government didn’t know how to manage it. On the contrary, they used it to bring more hatred between people.
You couldn’t really talk about what you were feeling, of course not in public places. It was tough, so in many rooms when you would sit with your family or with your friends, you would really speak what’s in your heart. You would speak about, yes the 7th of October was horrifying what was happening, and there’s no excuse to it. But there’s also no excuse to killing tens of thousands of people. You can’t go on like this. And in many rooms, Palestinians would sit, it would begin by talking about, for how long will we sit and listen to the pain of our Jewish friends without being able to speak about our pain?
Sruli Fruchter: Yeah, that makes sense.
Shifting gears a little bit, what do you look for in deciding which Knesset party to vote for?
Rula Daood: Which Knesset party to vote for?
Sruli Fruchter: You can say which one you’re voting for, but I guess what are the things that you think about or look for when you’re deciding who’s going to get your vote?
Rula Daood: Well, look, for me, it’s an easy question, but it is a very difficult choice I make each and every time. I want Arab-Palestinian representatives in the Knesset. I want as much more of them so we can have more power within the Knesset.
But at the same time, everybody I see doesn’t… I don’t really have specific people or a specific list that can speak about all of the things, all of the politics that I see.
Sruli Fruchter: They don’t represent you the way you want them to.
Rula Daood: No, no, they don’t, not fully, but I think it’s the case for many people.
But right now, when I will go and vote, eventually I will vote for an Arab-Palestinian list. It is, you know, survival mode. It’s more that way. But if we would talk about a future where I would vote for the ones that I really want to see, so I want to have people who believe in the same things, people who believe in equality, in social justice, in real partnership between Jews and Palestinians in here, and people who will be at the parliament, at the Knesset, but working with the people living in here.
We don’t have that kind of list, not fully. I’m talking about people who would also fight for equal rights, women rights, LGBTQ rights. So it’s kind of this one, but not that one. You don’t have a real list that …
So when we go out and choose, when we vote, when I will vote, I would look at the things that will serve me right now. And right now, after this war, I do want to see more representatives, Arab-Palestinian representatives, because I do want my voice to still be a valid and strong one in the Knesset, especially with all of the laws that this government has been passing towards both Palestinian citizens, but also Knesset members.
Sruli Fruchter: Which is more important for Israel, Judaism or democracy?
Rula Daood: You’re asking a Palestinian? It’s a good one. I think the fight in here between religious people and secular people, it’s very much there all of the time.
Secular people will tell you, we want a democratic state, that it’s not controlled by religious ideas and point of views. But at the same time, they still want it to be a Jewish country for the majority of the people in here. But not from a religious point of view, but from being one nation, one people. It is the country of the Jewish people.
And I think especially now after this war, I do believe people in here, they still want it to be a Jewish and democratic. They do very much. They’re not good in balancing. But for me as a Palestinian, I want it as a democratic state.
I don’t want superiority of others to be a thing that I face each and every day. But it is a good question. It depends who you ask. But if I look at the overview of what’s happening right now, there’s a fight.
There has been a fight for a democratic state always. But still people would never give up on most people on the fact that it is the land of the Jews or the country of the Jews.
Sruli Fruchter: Does that cause difficulty for you working in an organization or working with others who have that condition to the activism that they have that you don’t share?
Rula Daood: Good one. Look, I do want to live in a democratic state.
And right now we don’t live in a democratic state. We’ve never had real democracy in Israel, especially towards minorities. It is something that I live each and every day. So one of my fight is to live under a government in a country that sees me as equal.
And in 2018, there was nation state law that says explicitly that I am not equal to the Jews who live in here. So I want that to be changed, of course. And this is one of the fights that I lead. But as long as people’s identities, religion and thoughts of, you know, your own nationality does not mean taking from my rights, I don’t care how you identify this country.
As long as I have equal rights, I don’t care how you identify this country. I really don’t.
Sruli Fruchter: What role should the Israeli government have in religious matters?
Rula Daood: Hmm. It’s a good one.
Listen, I want to be honest. I do like that we have Shabbat because you need a day off. No, really. I am a socialist after all.
And I do want a day off. And I would love if that day would be Sunday.
Sruli Fruchter: We should have more Shabbat.
Rula Daood: Yeah. And I would love if that day would be Sunday because, you know, I’m Christian. So I do want a day off. Oh, you want it. Yes.
I had in previous places where I used to work, I told them Sunday is my day off. It’s not that I go to church, but it is how I’m used to it. Sunday is my day off. But again, religious is used in here to basically differentiate between people.
It is used in a negative way by this government. It’s not used to better the lives of people, unfortunately. It is used to give a context of we are the Jews and you are the goys. The goys.
Like we are the first class citizen and you are the second class citizen. And what this government is trying to do is basically to abuse, this is how I see it, the Jewish faith and religion to their own politics, which at the end of the day will only affect, you know, religious people in a bad way. I do want a country that is not based on religious, I don’t know how you say it, rules or ideas. I want a state that is based on the fact that you have democracy and people are equal, but still with having respect to the different religious groups who live in here.
This is how I see it.
Sruli Fruchter: What is Zionism for you? We’re exploring everything.
Rula Daood: No, it’s okay.
Zionism is, and you are asking a Palestinian, so I’m going to be harsh. You know, Zionism is literally the fact that Jews have their own right to their own land on the land of Palestine. This is how Zionism, you know, began. It started by talking about a land to the Jews as a promised land because God has promised us, and started by conquering, buying more lands and then conquering again, then what happened before 1948 and after 1948.
It is a concept that speaks of one people who have more rights than other people just because God has promised them. This is Zionism for many Palestinians in here. When you say Zionism to Palestinians in Israel, in the West Bank, in Gaza, it is not a positive thing. It literally means the idea that began all of the establishment of a Jewish country, Israel, and is continuing to take more lands of Palestinians who live in here.
Zionism is not a positive thing for me. This is how we see Zionism. But today, you know, I am a grown person and I speak and I have many friends and I see a lot of people. And I do understand that for many Israelis, Jewish Israelis, Zionism is equivalent to patriotism, to being an Israeli.
If you can’t be Israeli without being a Zionist, it somehow goes one next to the other. And it’s because there has been, you know, the whole education system since the beginning of this country speaks about Zionism as being a patriot to Israel. So many people would identify themselves as, yes, I am a Zionist, but it doesn’t mean that I don’t want Palestinians to have their own state. Yes, I am a Zionist, but it doesn’t mean that I don’t want a secular state.
Everybody today would see Zionism, you know, Jews in a different aspect. But for most Palestinians, if not for all of us, Zionism means, you know, the conquering of this land and taking, you know, the lands of people and giving us unequal rights and conquering more and more. This is how we see Zionism.
Sruli Fruchter: So I kind of asked a similar question before, but it does really interest me.
Is that hard for you to reconcile that there is a movement, an ideology, a belief that’s so fundamental? And I’m sure to many of the people who are in Standing Together, and yet there’s still a part of you that will work alongside them and will share with them and stand with them. How do you balance those two things, being a part of an ideology that to you, as you said, and to many Palestinians, isn’t a positive thing? And yet for many of the activists you’re standing in protest with and working alongside, it’s their entire vision.
Rula Daood: My fight and our fight here within the society that we live in is a fight for equality, for a real end to the war, an end to the occupation. And yes, an independent state that is next to the Israel state.
You have two people living in here. You have the Jewish people and you have the Palestinian people. And you’re talking about millions of people. And the very basic fact is that nobody is going to wake up someday and just leave.
I’m not going to wake up, pack up my stuff and go to one of the Arab countries around because this is home. And it’s the same thing for many Jews who are with me. Most of the Jews who live in here, they’re not going to just pack up and leave. And some people would say, go back to Europe or something like that.
But it is a home for millions of people who were born here, living here. And it is a fact that nobody is vanishing from here. That is a fact. So the question is, what do we do? What must we do in order for all of us to live in a land where we are really equal? And the answer would be is, you know, to have real equality between all of us.
Real liberty, real freedom that will allow all of us to feel safe and free and be also independent. Now, if a Zionist would sit next to me and he would agree to what I have just said, we will work together because we live in a society.
Sruli Fruchter: Otherwise it’s a technical.
Rula Daood: We can be stuck on, you know, ideologies and declarations and Zionism and non-Zionist and all of that.
But at the end of the day, our fight is to build a political will, a political majority from the people within here that understand that both of us deserve the same things. Now, if you identify as one thing, but at the same time you agree on these principles, we can work together and we should work together because we want to build a different majority within our society. And the way you identify yourself is not a real barrier to me as long as you believe that I have the right to live here the same way you have the right to live here. I have the right to have the same rights such as you and our fight is towards real equality, real social justice, independence, economic justice.
As long as we agree on these things, there’s no real reason for us not to work with one another. And I know, you know, people abroad, when they look at us, they see it in a very different way. And they don’t really understand our reality and how we live in here. And they don’t understand that our society is very different from the ideas they have and the ideologies that they have abroad.
And for some, it might seem difficult for them, but for us, this is, you know, this is one of the ways that we do fight. We need to have mutual causes. We need to look at what is the things we agree on and work on these things. Now, for sure, I will not be part of, you know, a movement who have in them settlers who believe in the great Israel.
No, we don’t have anything in common. These are not the people I’m going to work with. But I will work with people who go out to the streets and say, end this war, end the killing. Let’s talk about solutions and let’s have real equality within citizens of Israel.
We have independence for Palestinians living in the West Bank and Gaza. These are people I will work with. And if they identify as Zionists, I don’t have a problem.
Sruli Fruchter: Can opposing Zionism ever be antisemitic?
Rula Daood: No, I don’t think so. I think it is also part of, you know, it is a problem right now that people, they want to have things that are equivalent, that if you’re a Zionist or a non-Zionist, it means that, you know, it relates to antisemitism. I see what’s happening also abroad and how people want to, how do you say, to compare between things. Not all Jews are Zionists and not all Jews are non-Zionists. And some Jews don’t really care about Zionists or non-Zionists.
It’s not an issue that they talk about each and every day. Being antisemitic, it means that you hate Jews just for them being Jews. So there is a difference between both things. And I do understand that some people are trying to give, how do you say in English, to compare between things.
If you don’t approve of Zionism, it means that you hate all the Jews. But it’s not the same. Again, I do think, some of the people also that I meet, not everybody is a Zionist, not everybody is a non-Zionist. Some people don’t really care about these definitions.
Of course, the people who don’t live here, but opposing to Zionism doesn’t mean that you oppose to Judaism. It’s two different things. For most people, as I’ve said, to many people, especially Palestinians and Arab, Zionism means, you know, conquering this land, taking land from Palestinians, you know, declaring a state that is not equal to the Palestinians who live in it, which is two different things from, you know, being an antisemitic.
Sruli Fruchter: Can questioning the actions of Israel’s government and army be considered a valid form of love and patriotism?
Rula Daood: Say it again.
Sruli Fruchter: Can questioning, if people are questioning or challenging the government or the army, can doing that be thought of as a form of love or of patriotism?
Rula Daood: Again, you’re asking a Palestinian these questions. Yeah. Look, as Palestinians, we don’t go to the army. We don’t do army.
It’s not part of our, you know, daily…
Sruli Fruchter: I’m asking more about just questioning it, not necessarily participating or… Because the reason I ask is because I think many people would have an opinion that being critical of a government or of an army means that you’re against the country, that you’re against the people. In your perspective, is that something that you agree with? You think that that’s their characterization? They get something wrong?
Rula Daood: No, we criticize the government all the time.
All the time. Before the 7th of October, after the 7th of October, we speak of a different politics. We want something different. It is not wrong to criticize your government when your government is basically letting you live in 15 months of war with no solutions.
And it’s not wrong to criticize an army once you see that that army isn’t, you know, is being led into killing more people in your name, while things should be looking different. So, no, I don’t think it’s bad. On the contrary, I think it’s good. And more people should be criticizing their government and, yes, the army, once they are committing, you know, war crimes in Gaza. Yeah.
Sruli Fruchter: What do you think is the most legitimate and illegitimate? It’s like the most fair and the most unfair criticism that people make about Israel.
Rula Daood: You mean here or abroad? In general. I do think most people don’t really differentiate between the government and the people.
It is like when you say Israel, it’s like everything and everyone. So, like, this is Israel. And not being able to differentiate that means that you can get many things wrong. I will give you an example.
When we would go abroad, now I have an Israeli passport, so people would say I’m Israeli. So people who want to boycott me, people who would go out and, you know, be part of the BDS and think it’s, you know, boycotting is a way of resisting. But when you boycott people who are trying to change things and who are fighting against the government you live in, I think it’s a very bad choice.
Sruli Fruchter: And BDS actually spoke out against Standing Together.
Rula Daood: Yes, they did. But I do think that many people generalize about Israel. It is this government is doing all of the war crimes in Gaza. Everybody is seeing what’s happening in Gaza.
So everybody says like, you know, all Israelis, all Jewish Israelis have blood on their hands and they approve to war crimes and they approve to what’s happening. But what we see here from the change that we have seen in the last 15 months says that 70% of the people living in Israel don’t want this war anymore and don’t approve to continuing this war and they want a ceasefire. So that kind of generalization between the government and the people, it is something that’s a bit not fair to do in here. But I must say that I can’t think of something positive.
I’m so sorry. I need to think about it.
Sruli Fruchter: Okay. If you want another few moments, I can give you that. Or if you want, I can move on to the next question.
Rula Daood: Let’s move on and maybe we can go back.
Sruli Fruchter: Okay, great. Do you think peace between Israelis and Palestinians will happen within your lifetime?
Rula Daood: Oh God, I hope so.
Sruli Fruchter: All the big questions.
Rula Daood: I hope so. I think…
Sruli Fruchter: Do you think so?
Rula Daood: It is a good question.
I think it might happen. It can happen if we play our cards in the right way, which means… History has taught us that we are closest to peace at times of war. We know that.
It’s a fact. And the only question is what kind of a leadership will we have and what kind of a pressure will we have on that leadership to choose the path that they will go through. Right now, our government is a government that doesn’t really want peace. They don’t really want a Palestinian state and we see it each and every day.
This government is basically choosing to… Again, we will end up with Hamas in Gaza and we have the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank. What this government can do, the Israeli government, is choose to strengthen the Palestinian Authority and to give them more power within Gaza so people will see an alternative and people will choose from that alternative.
Sruli Fruchter: Instead of Hamas.
Rula Daood: Instead of Hamas. You had a question before about military solutions. It is not a solution. The real solution is giving people hope.
And hope is giving them an alternative to choose from.
Sruli Fruchter: A social solution that will lead to a political resolution.
Rula Daood: People need to see something that’s different from Hamas in Gaza. And as long as you don’t give power, money, infrastructure to build something different so people can choose from, people will still choose Hamas.
It’s a fact. So this government right now, with all of the politicians, with the U.S., with the Arab Saudi, and everybody who’s trying to give a solution after the 7th of October, they need to understand, they do understand, that the status quo cannot be maintained anymore. We can’t go back to October 6th. So the question is, what do we do from here? Do we give again Hamas the power to control people’s lives in Gaza and to be strong again in five or six years? Or do we say, no, there is another player, which is a player that can be good to the people in Gaza also, and one that we can have a real agreement with, that can go into having real peace.
So this is a huge question. The Israeli government right now is still controlled by very right-wing settlers. People who speak of conquering more land, who speak of the whole of Israel, who want to build more settlements in the West Bank. And as long as these people are the ones who are navigating these political issues, we won’t have peace, not in my lifetime.
Rula Daood: But once we can replace these people, once we can have more pressure towards having real solutions, maybe we do have a chance to have real peace. And I think this is what we do in Standing Together. We talk about the solution of peace. We talk about the fact that we can’t go on with more wars.
We talk about giving an alternative to people who live also in Israel, but also in the West Bank and in Gaza. And for that, we need a lot of political pressure and decisions made by other people in order for us to go to a different path. So yes, if all of these cards align, if we have pressure from the people demanding real solutions, if we have alternatives to the people in Gaza and the West Bank, if we get to a place where we are real equal, we can get to a place where we can have real peace. Because eventually, it is the only solution.
Like there is no other solution. It is the only solution. Because if not, we will keep on having wars and wars and destruction and hatred. And it will only end up to basically, you know, not just cracks in our society, but also somehow, how do you say?
Sruli Fruchter: A trickle down effect.
Rula Daood: Yeah.
Sruli Fruchter: What do you think should happen with Gaza and the Palestine-Israeli conflict? After the war, which now we’re in this stage of the ceasefire, we’re in phase one, and there’s still many months to go. But what do you think should happen? I know you touched on it briefly in your previous answer.
Rula Daood: Yeah.
Right now, there are like, you know, political meetings, and they’re speaking about what to do, and whether Hamas is still going to be there. But, you know, at the day of the release of the three hostages, we saw Hamas in the streets celebrating. They were there. It was very obvious that Hamas is still in Gaza and controlling.
Yes, they have become much more weaker. But Hamas is still there. The ideology of Hamas is still there. And the way I see it, if we really want a solution right now, if it is, you know, have an agreement with Hamas, it should be, I don’t know how to say it.
I think that there should be pushing towards different groups in Gaza, that it’s not Hamas, the same way that I think that our government should be changed. And the only alternative right now to Hamas is the Palestinian Authority, is what we have in the West Bank. Yes, it’s not an ideology, you know, it’s not the thing that most people want.
Sruli Fruchter: It’s not ideal, but that’s one of the options.
Rula Daood: Yeah, this is one of the options. And if not, it is basically giving more resources, more money and more power to people within Gaza who want to build something different, that it’s not Hamas. You need to build an alternative. But it’s going to take time.
It’s not going to be easy. Hamas is still in Gaza. They are the only ones right now who can, again, go back and control Gaza. So if the agreements were to be held with Hamas, you know, compromises need to be written down, agreements of borders, of reconstructing Gaza, of, again, one of our fights was to lift the siege from Gaza.
And it must, even now, still, you can’t have millions of people living under siege after all of this destruction. But the building is going to take a lot of time. Not just building, you know, the streets and everything, but people, people believing that something different can happen, people not being scared of Israelis, not seeing all Israelis as one who, like, bombed them and killed them. I don’t think I do have a specific, you know, a plan of how it will look, but I do believe it starts by understanding that there must be resources into building an alternative to Hamas in Gaza.
Because if Hamas remains in power, the same way as if Bibi remains in power, I don’t think something is going to change. Nothing. It’s going to be, again, about power and building that power and having more guns, and in three, four, five years, maybe, again, another war. We need different politics.
Sruli Fruchter: Do you see Hamas and the Israeli government as the same, or you see differences between them in terms of the roles that they have?
Rula Daood: No, I don’t see any difference between them. I think it’s both of them. It is a group of politicians. These are politicians.
And by the way, like, Hamas and Israel had really good relationships before the 7th of October. The Israeli government was giving money to Hamas and letting money get into Hamas. There’s somehow some kind of understanding between the Israeli government and Hamas, and the fact that the negotiations…
Sruli Fruchter: And they treat each other as equal politicians. So in your view, it’s…
Rula Daood: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
In my view, they’re like both extremists who don’t see the benefit of the people in front of their eyes. They don’t care about people. They don’t put people at the beginning. They see their own political benefits, what we can benefit from as an organization or as a government, how we can stay in power as a government, as an organization.
This is how I see them. And both of them have caused a lot of destruction for the people living in Israel and Gaza. Yeah.
Sruli Fruchter: What do you wish the world knew about the Palestinian communities in Israel?
Rula Daood: First of all, I wish for people to know that there are Palestinian citizens inside of Israel.
Many times when we go abroad, people, when I say I’m a Palestinian, people don’t understand how. In Israel, you have more 20-21% of the citizens who are Palestinians. We are part of the Israeli society, but we are also part of the Palestinian People. What I wish for them to know, I always say Israel is not a democracy.
There are democratic spaces, some of democratic spaces, but it’s not democracy. And we see it by the laws that Israel does have, nation state law, communist law, the laws right now for the Knesset that will be fulfilled also. So it’s not a democracy. And we somehow live in a constant fight over the rights that we deserve and we don’t have.
But at the same time, I do believe that, you know, being part of the Israeli society, but also part of the Palestinian People, means that we have different perspective. We live through different things from other people. And we are, I think, we are the main player in the solution for this place. We’re the main player to understanding that we need to reach out into solutions that speak about real peace for people, but also for real independence for both sides.
Because we do live, you know, somehow in two different societies and we try to combine them together. So we are, you know, one of the main characters who will play, you know, a part of the solutions. So we need to be also sitting there on the table when we start speaking about solutions.
Sruli Fruchter: What is a book you think everyone should read about Israel?
Rula Daood: You mean a certain book or just like a book that I think…
Sruli Fruchter: A particular book that you think is like on the top of your reading list.
Rula Daood: Oh, wow. The next one. What is the other question? I don’t have the name of the book in English.
Sruli Fruchter: You can say it in Arabic or Hebrew.
Rula Daood: Well, there was a book about… Yeah, but it’s not about Israel. It is about like the Palestinian society in here.
Sruli Fruchter: Yeah, that qualifies. That’s good.
Rula Daood: Yeah? Well, there was a book, I think, 10 or 15 years ago about… It’s called Ha’aravim Hatovim, The Good Arabs.
Rula Daood: And it speaks about, you know, the Palestinian society.
Sruli Fruchter: Is it translated into English?
Rula Daood: Yes, it is translated into English. And it speaks about the Palestinian society, that what we’ve been through, you know, since 1948 until 2000 and 2010, 12, 11, taking the history and what was happening. And it shows, you know, how the Palestinian society have, what happened to it during the years, how it kind of somehow changed and somehow tried to fit in also within the Israeli society.
Sruli Fruchter: Where do you identify on Israel’s political and religious spectrum? And do you have friends on the other side? Again? Where do you identify politically and religiously in Israel? And do you have any friends who are the total opposite? Where I identify?
Rula Daood: You mean if I’m a lefty?
Sruli Fruchter: Lefty, righty? I assume you’re not a righty. I have my guesses, but I’m curious how you identify.
Rula Daood: No, I would say I’m a… I never said I’m a left or right until, you know, I started going out to the streets and demonstrating.
Not really. I would always say I’m a socialist. Like I’m a Palestinian socialist, which gives a lot of, you know, means that because I’m a second-class citizen, I’m a minority, so people would assume that I’m a lefty because I go out for fights who speak about social justice. But yes, I would say I’m a lefty socialist.
Sruli Fruchter: And religiously, you mentioned that you’re a Christian?
Rula Daood: I am Christian, but my religious doesn’t, like, you know, it doesn’t play a main role in my life. It’s more about holidays and being with my family, and I’m not someone who prays. Not anymore, I would say.
Sruli Fruchter: Not anymore? There was a time when you…
Rula Daood: Yes.
Sruli Fruchter: When you were younger or more recently?
Rula Daood: When I was younger, I grew up… My grandma and my mom’s side are Catholics, so we used to go to church every Sunday.
We used to begin our day with a prayer, go to sleep and pray. Yes. But when I went up to the big, like, no, no, to the world at the age of 16, I started seeing things in a different way, and I stopped praying.
Sruli Fruchter: So our last question. Yeah. I guess, sorry, just the other part of that question is do you have friends on the other side who are very opposite from left, who are very, very right, and who are very religious?
Rula Daood: Yes, I do. I have…
Sruli Fruchter: Palestinians, Jews?
Rula Daood: Palestinians and Jews. Oh, really? I have Palestinian friends who are very right-wing. They think they’re lefties, but they’re not. So they are very much right-wing.
Sruli Fruchter: What does a right-wing Palestinian mean? Meaning they’re right-wing… Like, would Israelis consider them left-wing, or that means that they are on the Israeli right?
Rula Daood: No, no, no. It means that Israelis consider them as right-wing. It’s like people who would say, go back to Europe. Okay? Yeah? That kind.
Sruli Fruchter: Meaning they would say, those are the Palestinians. Oh, wow.
Rula Daood: Yeah, yeah. And I have very religious people.
They’re friends, but really good friends. And I must say that I find in common more things with the religious people that I have in my life than secular people. Especially, you know, Mizrahi Jews.
Rula Daood: It is amazing. It is… They come… It’s like Mizrahi, you know, Jews who come from Arab countries, they have the same traditions.
It’s like they come from Arab countries, so the tradition of food, of gathering, of family, it’s very much the same. And when it comes to prayers, like, you feel like there’s so many similarities. When you go to… When they do Shabbat, it is…
You know, Kabbalat Shabbat, like Chazan, when they sing, it is very much… You know, it reminds me of my home.
Sruli Fruchter: Oh, you go to the services sometimes?
Rula Daood: Sometimes, yeah.
So it reminds me. And even, like, there is, you know, when Knesset Shabbat, so you have, Shalom Aleichem. Yeah. So the Chazan, the one we have in Jaffa, has a very beautiful voice.
Sruli Fruchter: Oh, wow.
Rula Daood: And it is because he’s Mizrahi, and he sings. I don’t know if you can say… You say sing?
He sings, and it’s very beautiful. It is. And there’s also a mosque in Jaffa. There is one.
They used to have an imam who has a very bad voice. But now they have a new one who has a great voice.
Sruli Fruchter: Oh, they’re competing now against two singers.
Rula Daood: Yes, so it’s like… It reminds me of home. And when I sit down with, you know, my religious friends who are, like, from, you know, Mizrahi, it’s just like we have more things in common. It feels like you’re sitting with your people in many ways. And yes, and on the Jewish side, people, I do have friends who are religious and others who, I would say, like, are more right-wing.
Not very much extreme right. Not these who would say, you know, I don’t have, like, settlers as friends, for example. But yes, I do.
Sruli Fruchter: So our last question. I know we’ve had a lot of questions. Do you have more hope or fear for Israel?
Rula Daood: Hmm. I do have more hope for the people. I would say that.
The way I see my future or the future of the people living here does not revolve around, you know, Israel as Israel. It is more about the people who are living here. So if your question is, do I have more hope, like, for this place? I do. I see changes happening.
I see more people, you know, kind of coming back to what they believed in before. And I do believe that the will of people wanting to live, you know, in peace eventually overcomes other obstacles. This is how I see it. But at the same time, people can be very, you know, harsh in many ways.
I would say that a lot of times what gives me hope is people. But at the same time, what breaks my heart is also people. So it is a very, you know…
Sruli Fruchter: Difficult place to be in.
Okay, well, Rula, thank you so much for answering our 18 questions. How was this for you?
Rula Daood: First of all, thank you for also interviewing me. But in many ways, when the talk is about Israel, it’s very difficult for Palestinians somehow to relate because our fight in here is not, you know, is not for the idea of Israel.
Our fight is for the idea of having real equality in this land. So in many ways, when the questions are like, what do you think of Israel and how Israel does, it can be somehow like…
Sruli Fruchter: Like tone deaf.
Rula Daood: Yeah. But I…
Sruli Fruchter: I apologize for that. I hope that…
Rula Daood: No, no, no. It’s okay. It’s okay. I think it’s important you ask me that way so I can also, you know, give an answer that brings a different perspective from this place.
So yes, my fight is for the people who are living in this land. This is my fight. And thank you.
Sruli Fruchter: All right.
Thank you so much. As I prefaced in the intro, I’m sure there were many ideas here that many of our listeners have not encountered directly before or have not heard in this context or phrased in these ways. Because as with all guests, every single guest brings their unique life experience, their religious, political, academic or journalistic work that forms their perspective. But the goal for us is not to convince anyone of a particular view, but to allow us to have a listening ear into what is being said in Israeli society, what is being thought about, what is being grappled with from all different sides of the spectrum.
And so as usual, I want to hear your thoughts, I want to hear your feedback, and I want to hear your critiques. Please shoot us an email at info18Forty.org and be sure to subscribe and share with friends so that we can reach new listeners. Special shout out to our friends as usual, Gilad Brounstein and Josh Weinberg for editing the podcast and the video of this episode, which will drop later this week. So thank you so much and please be sure to fill out the annual survey linked in the description below.
And until next time, keep questioning and keep thinking.
This transcript was produced by Sofer.AI.